Posted July 28, 2013
grimwerk
sleeper slice
Registered: Sep 2012
From United States
hedwards
buy Evil Genius
Registered: Nov 2008
From United States
Posted July 28, 2013
Generally though, you can't sustain interest indefinitely, at some point folks will lose interest. And sustaining interest through a fixed campaign or story is a decent goal.
However, when you have people grinding or engaged in dull activities in game, that's a fairly good sign that you're not sustaining interest, you've designed a game that they're not playing because it's fun, they're putting up with the boredom because of a pay off.
It's a lot more similar to gambling addiction than some folks are willing to admit. Just one more hand, I'm sure my luck will turn around. Is very similar to just one more time through the dungeon, I"m sure I'll get that artifact I'm looking for.
Reever
Demon
Registered: Sep 2012
From Germany
Posted July 28, 2013
Waste of money and time, translates to I suck at it and I always lose, so I don't like it :D
QC
X-Mas Triforce!!
Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
Posted July 28, 2013
WIth a high luck stat you can make all of your money that way. Though a few games of Caravan with No Bark is a good way to fill your pockets too.
My Want-To-Be-Girlfriend's family had a home that was actually about 300 feet from a three story Casino, and this was a little run down town in the boondocks of fuck nowhere. Sadly there's not much help for those with a gambling addiction as it becomes about the thrill of chance than the potential of win or lose, and by that point the most you can do is ask the casinos to refuse them. Here in Missouri, a few years ago there was a thing where they had a law limiting the amount someone could lose in one night/week/month(?) , which I guess if used responsibly could be a good tool, but obviously it's not going to be used that way.
My Want-To-Be-Girlfriend's family had a home that was actually about 300 feet from a three story Casino, and this was a little run down town in the boondocks of fuck nowhere. Sadly there's not much help for those with a gambling addiction as it becomes about the thrill of chance than the potential of win or lose, and by that point the most you can do is ask the casinos to refuse them. Here in Missouri, a few years ago there was a thing where they had a law limiting the amount someone could lose in one night/week/month(?) , which I guess if used responsibly could be a good tool, but obviously it's not going to be used that way.
Post edited July 28, 2013 by QC
Elvis is Dead
Find me in STEAM OT
Registered: Dec 2012
From Other
Posted July 28, 2013
Anyone here play Pazaak?
QC
X-Mas Triforce!!
Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
Elvis is Dead
Find me in STEAM OT
Registered: Dec 2012
From Other
QC
X-Mas Triforce!!
Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
Posted July 28, 2013
Most annoying to play: The little chirping owl-like-thing and the Ithorian by the Enclave Ruins. But the Ithorian is worth it because you can win like 10k credits and a regenerative armor mod from him.
Goatbrush
citation needed
Registered: Sep 2008
From United Kingdom
Posted July 28, 2013
I was listening to a show about the rise and rise of the betting shops on I think it was BBC Radio 5? a few weeks ago. They mentioned that the shops have these roulette machines in there now, incredibly addictive high roller type things which can swallow hundreds of pounds within minutes.
People were calling in describing how they see people, know people, or are people who go in there and spend their entire weekly wages/benefits or whatever in less than 10 minutes. I've seen first hand the results of an addiction to gambling, the more desperate they get the more they try to escape into the hole they've dug for themselves and now they have this faceless avenue to feed their addiction. I find the exploitation quite sickening.
As was mentioned, an outright ban on these places would infringe on freedom of choice, and I'm sure the majority of people who occasionally gamble do so responsibly. I agree with heavier sanctions on the advertising (along with wonga and its ilk, but that's a different story), and I also think something should be done to stop the targetted increasing presence of these shops in the poorest/most vulnerable locations.
People were calling in describing how they see people, know people, or are people who go in there and spend their entire weekly wages/benefits or whatever in less than 10 minutes. I've seen first hand the results of an addiction to gambling, the more desperate they get the more they try to escape into the hole they've dug for themselves and now they have this faceless avenue to feed their addiction. I find the exploitation quite sickening.
As was mentioned, an outright ban on these places would infringe on freedom of choice, and I'm sure the majority of people who occasionally gamble do so responsibly. I agree with heavier sanctions on the advertising (along with wonga and its ilk, but that's a different story), and I also think something should be done to stop the targetted increasing presence of these shops in the poorest/most vulnerable locations.
grimwerk
sleeper slice
Registered: Sep 2012
From United States
Posted July 28, 2013
Generally though, you can't sustain interest indefinitely, at some point folks will lose interest. And sustaining interest through a fixed campaign or story is a decent goal.
However, when you have people grinding or engaged in dull activities in game, that's a fairly good sign that you're not sustaining interest, you've designed a game that they're not playing because it's fun, they're putting up with the boredom because of a pay off.
It's a lot more similar to gambling addiction than some folks are willing to admit. Just one more hand, I'm sure my luck will turn around. Is very similar to just one more time through the dungeon, I"m sure I'll get that artifact I'm looking for.
Khadgar42
Illegal Commando
Registered: Aug 2012
From Germany
Posted July 28, 2013
Concerning gambling I find the argument about "freedom of choice" rather unsettling. While many laws inhibit true freedom of choice or simply fine people for not following rules as it hits something addictive people start tossing the term "freedom of choice" around.
So, I think most of you agree that excessive gambling is an illness, an addiction. The results are (among others): poverty and misery - rather good starters for an early grave, actually.
Let's have a look at wearing a seatbelt while driving a car. I'm not sure if it's an addiction not to wear a seatbelt or not, but it's not allowed = illegal in most countries. It's a freedom of choice taken away from the driver.
"It's my car, my life and my freaking choice if I wear a seatbelt or not!"
Considering the lack of driving skills these days not wearing a seat belt is a good starter to get you to a serious head injury and thus an early grave.
Goverment says: Driving without Seatbelt = illegal
but nobody says anything about taking freedom of choice away.
Goverment says: Gambling in big Casinos = legal
and everybody says, oh its the freedom of choice if people want to throw away their lives and live in utter misery as soon as they spiral down their gambling addiction.
I don't know if the goverment cares about freedom of choice, but as long as the get a piece of the pie, they are interested.
If the goverment would do their maths right they probably find that they have to sustain all the poor sods who gambled away everything but that's a whole different story.
So, I think most of you agree that excessive gambling is an illness, an addiction. The results are (among others): poverty and misery - rather good starters for an early grave, actually.
Let's have a look at wearing a seatbelt while driving a car. I'm not sure if it's an addiction not to wear a seatbelt or not, but it's not allowed = illegal in most countries. It's a freedom of choice taken away from the driver.
"It's my car, my life and my freaking choice if I wear a seatbelt or not!"
Considering the lack of driving skills these days not wearing a seat belt is a good starter to get you to a serious head injury and thus an early grave.
Goverment says: Driving without Seatbelt = illegal
but nobody says anything about taking freedom of choice away.
Goverment says: Gambling in big Casinos = legal
and everybody says, oh its the freedom of choice if people want to throw away their lives and live in utter misery as soon as they spiral down their gambling addiction.
I don't know if the goverment cares about freedom of choice, but as long as the get a piece of the pie, they are interested.
If the goverment would do their maths right they probably find that they have to sustain all the poor sods who gambled away everything but that's a whole different story.
Post edited July 28, 2013 by Khadgar42
Elvis is Dead
Find me in STEAM OT
Registered: Dec 2012
From Other
Posted July 28, 2013
This is for the American's here, well some Europeans maybe. I saw an interesting article the other day regarding Pete Rose and weather his gambling on baseball (which got him banned for life) is as bad or worse than the players currently getting nailed for juicing while playing baseball. I have some vague opinions on it myself but it's always constantly evolving and I'm always interested to hear other opinions on it.
Khadgar42: Concerning gambling I find the argument about "freedom of choice" rather unsettling. While many laws inhibit true freedom of choice or simply fine people for not following rules as it hits something addictive people start tossing the term "freedom of choice" around.
So, I think most of you agree that excessive gambling is an illness, an addiction. The results are (among others): poverty and misery - rather good starters for an early grave, actually.
Let's have a look at wearing a seatbelt while driving a car. I'm not sure if it's an addiction not to wear a seatbelt or not, but it's not allowed = illegal in most countries. It's a freedom of choice taken away from the driver.
"It's my car, my life and my freaking choice if I wear a seatbelt or not!"
Considering the lack of driving skills these days not wearing a seat belt is a good starter to get you to a serious head injury and thus an early grave.
Goverment says: Driving without Seatbelt = illegal
but nobody says anything about taking freedom of choice away.
Goverment says: Gambling in big Casinos = legal
and everybody says, oh its the freedom of choice if people want to throw away their lives and live in utter misery as soon as they spiral down their gambling addiction.
I don't know if the goverment cares about freedom of choice, but as long as the get a piece of the pie, they are interested.
If the goverment would do their maths right they probably find that they have to sustain all the poor sods who gambled away everything but that's a whole different story. Good points all but I will say that the increased likelihood of severe injury and or death resulting from not wearing a seatbelt does affect other people. It's a monetary one but still. When someone doesn't wear a seatbelt it cost more money to cover them and the insurance companies get that extra money by increasing EVERYONES premiums. I'm not saying it's right or wrong I'm just pointing out that on paper not wearing a seatbelt does have it's collateral damage (pardon the pun).
So, I think most of you agree that excessive gambling is an illness, an addiction. The results are (among others): poverty and misery - rather good starters for an early grave, actually.
Let's have a look at wearing a seatbelt while driving a car. I'm not sure if it's an addiction not to wear a seatbelt or not, but it's not allowed = illegal in most countries. It's a freedom of choice taken away from the driver.
"It's my car, my life and my freaking choice if I wear a seatbelt or not!"
Considering the lack of driving skills these days not wearing a seat belt is a good starter to get you to a serious head injury and thus an early grave.
Goverment says: Driving without Seatbelt = illegal
but nobody says anything about taking freedom of choice away.
Goverment says: Gambling in big Casinos = legal
and everybody says, oh its the freedom of choice if people want to throw away their lives and live in utter misery as soon as they spiral down their gambling addiction.
I don't know if the goverment cares about freedom of choice, but as long as the get a piece of the pie, they are interested.
If the goverment would do their maths right they probably find that they have to sustain all the poor sods who gambled away everything but that's a whole different story.
Post edited July 28, 2013 by tinyE
Goatbrush
citation needed
Registered: Sep 2008
From United Kingdom
Posted July 28, 2013
Not that I necessarily disagree with what you're saying, but a closer match to the seatbelt analogy with the banning of gambling would be banning cars entirely as a reaction to the inherent danger of crashing.
I want to see a 'seatbelt' added to gambling, rather than removing the choice of being able to gamble for those who do so responsibly. It will always end up being abused, just as people continue to drive without seatbelts, but it's better than the outright exploitation people are facing as of this moment.
I want to see a 'seatbelt' added to gambling, rather than removing the choice of being able to gamble for those who do so responsibly. It will always end up being abused, just as people continue to drive without seatbelts, but it's better than the outright exploitation people are facing as of this moment.
ChrisSD
vita brevis
Registered: Jun 2013
From United Kingdom
Posted July 28, 2013
I want to see a 'seatbelt' added to gambling, rather than removing the choice of being able to gamble for those who do so responsibly. It will always end up being abused, just as people continue to drive without seatbelts, but it's better than the outright exploitation people are facing as of this moment.
Khadgar42
Illegal Commando
Registered: Aug 2012
From Germany
Posted July 28, 2013
Good points, both of you.
There are many examples where our freedom of choice is taken away by the goverment. Sometimes we even want it to be taken away (but again this is a whole different topic)
As long as we think it's common sense we don't mind much.
Compulsory education is restricting our freedom of choice, but the majority likes that idea.
Obligatory insurances exist in many social models / societies, while several people whine about them secretly everyone is happy to have them in the first place.
One more morbid example: Suicide is illegal. You are probably not going to be held accountable for that (if we leave this strange afterlife thingy out of it for a moment) but if you fail spectacularly you might even be taken to court.
I think gambling should be closely supervised, administered with care, like a methadone program. Then everyone should be fine.
There are many examples where our freedom of choice is taken away by the goverment. Sometimes we even want it to be taken away (but again this is a whole different topic)
As long as we think it's common sense we don't mind much.
Compulsory education is restricting our freedom of choice, but the majority likes that idea.
Obligatory insurances exist in many social models / societies, while several people whine about them secretly everyone is happy to have them in the first place.
One more morbid example: Suicide is illegal. You are probably not going to be held accountable for that (if we leave this strange afterlife thingy out of it for a moment) but if you fail spectacularly you might even be taken to court.
I think gambling should be closely supervised, administered with care, like a methadone program. Then everyone should be fine.
Post edited July 28, 2013 by Khadgar42