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General discussion (archive)Vice Presidential Debate-Thoughts(80 posts)(80 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 15, 2012
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infinite9: Kind of late posting this but from what I've seen it involved Biden constantly interrupting Ryan like a classless asshole and the moderator allowing him to get away with it. She made those replacement refs at that one football game between Seattle and Green Bay look professional. My only complaint with Paul Ryan is that he should have been a little more aggressive especially when Biden interrupted or when Biden claimed that he (meaning Biden) never voted for the Afghanistan War, the Iraq War, or the overly expensive medicare drug plan. Ryan should have definitely pounced on Biden when Biden pretended to sound tough by talking about how Obama supposedly got China and Russia to put "devastating... sanctions" on Iran while forgetting that the Chinese government and the Russian government are not on the side of the US or Israel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S0TSvwv8X4 http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/12/Fact-Check-Top-Ten-Worst-Lies-by-Joe-Biden-in-VP-Debate
For starters, the replacement refs in that game between Seattle and Green bay made the right call as was proven by the end zone camera footage (which nobody ever shows or talks about) that was first seen on Fox Sports. The footage clearly shows Tate catching the ball and having MUCH greater control over the ball while Jennings' valiantly attempt to wrest it away. The NFL rules state that even if it WERE a "simultaneous catch", the tie goes to the offense and the play cannot be a "catch" until the receiver (offense or defense) lands with both feet in bounds. Secondly, Obama never interrupted Romney and most cite that as the reason Obama was thought to have lost the debate by many. Romney did not just lie...he was unable to tell the truth a single time during the debate. Politifact and every other debunking type site were going nuts trying to keep up with all Romeny's lies! So Biden did not let Ryan get away with anything. He refuted Ryan at every dishonest turn and he won the debate. It is only a Vice Presidential debate and won't likely have any effect on the election so whining about this is just silly.
or when Biden claimed that he (meaning Biden) never voted for the Afghanistan War, the Iraq War,
You obviously did not watch the debate because Biden never claimed any such things.

And citing Breitbart in support of your claims here is like someone citing Kent Hovind in a science debate.
Post edited October 15, 2012 by SkeleTony
Posted October 15, 2012
I think it's funny (but not haha) that every time there's an election, the opposing candidate(s) always blames everything on the incumbent.

Every single time we hear "It's that guy's fault and I'll fix it." Four years later nothing is fixed and we hear "Well, it's that guy's fault and I'll fix it."

Nobody seems to pay attention to the fact that the whole system is shit and nothing is ever going to get "fixed." They all contribute to the shitty situation, but they all place the blame on everyone else. There is no "fresh start" when one becomes president; the problems are institutional and have been around forever.
Posted October 15, 2012
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SkeleTony: Part of me would love to make a little wager with you but I really don't see you being honest enough to own up to it if you lose. But for starters I am too old and not nearly naive enough to believe that polls are that reliable. Polls had Kerry crushing Bush...just before he lost the election (to be fair though there was a lot of voter fraud going on). Half the Conservatives I talk to claim to be "independent" and most of them are and always have been Conservative. And you would have to be pretty far Right to claim that Ryan even came close to a "Draw" here.
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tangledblue11: Right, me and 48% of the country are just part of the extreme right-wing and you're smack-dub in the center with no bias and all the answers. Think about what you are saying. I do give you kudos for not trusting the polls. Also, I am not being a dick, but since I try hard to adhere to the character virtues of Washington and Franklin I have to take issue with your honesty remark. The first person not named SkeleTony to reply to this sentence will get any GoG game $10 or less gifted to you.
I am not at all in the "center". I am a Liberal, which means I typically have no one to vote for in any election, except in the sense of trying to stop another Bush type regime happening by voting for the lesser of two or three evils. The last Presidential candidate I voted for because I believed in him was Ralph Nader in 2000. And accusing everyone with any position at all of being "biased" is pretty wonky. What does that accomplish besides giving someone an imaginary grounds for discounting the truth if it happens to fall on one side or the other? I am a HUGE advocate of the principles of our founding fathers, including Washington, Franklin and (especially) Jefferson. But I have heard the same from many different people, regardless of whether they were Theocracy advocates who think Christianity should be legislated and mandated or anti-religious secularists who believe that 9-11 was "an inside job". I am neither of those but my point is that saying you adhere to those character virtues does not tell us anything. Perhaps you ARE honest and you really did somehow believe that Ryan won the debate but surely you will understand why I questioned that since you were also claiming that even MSNBC agreed with your absurd analysis! Also every single one of your points was without substance and was something I heard regurgitated at Fox News several times per hour for days on end. That does not sound "independent" to me. Yes I truth MSNBC for the most part because, as a rationalist I must acknowledge the truth regardless of which side it happens to fall on and MSNBC, despite whatever bias you perceive them to have, does not LIE about the issues and when any one of their commentators makes a mistake, they say so on air and correct it. If Rachel Maddow or Andrea Mitchell ever spouts the sort of anti-factual nonsense that Ann Coulter, Bill O'reilly and Sean Hannity spout over on Fox then I will say so and look for a better source for political commentary.

I am no Democrat and though I voted Democrat in ONE Presidential election in my life (2008) I won't likely vote that way again. I was a Libertarian from 1992 - 2000 (when I voted for Nader) and since then have had no party affiliation. I am for much tougher laws and punishments for criminals (including support for the death penalty) because I think Liberals have this wrong. I am for legalizing all drugs because I think everyone has this wrong. I am opposed to insurance companies having to cover homeopathy/Naturopathy/accupuncture/Chiropractic because I think my fellows on the Left are wrong about this. I am for much stronger regulations, especially with regard to the environment (which used to be a Conservative value until fairly recently) because Conservatives are not only wrong about this but they are being herded by weal;thy people who stand to make lots of money by destroying the earth. Just so you have a better idea of who it is you are debating here.
Post edited October 15, 2012 by SkeleTony
Posted October 15, 2012
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infinite9: Kind of late posting this but from what I've seen it involved Biden constantly interrupting Ryan like a classless asshole and the moderator allowing him to get away with it. She made those replacement refs at that one football game between Seattle and Green Bay look professional. My only complaint with Paul Ryan is that he should have been a little more aggressive especially when Biden interrupted or when Biden claimed that he (meaning Biden) never voted for the Afghanistan War, the Iraq War, or the overly expensive medicare drug plan. Ryan should have definitely pounced on Biden when Biden pretended to sound tough by talking about how Obama supposedly got China and Russia to put "devastating... sanctions" on Iran while forgetting that the Chinese government and the Russian government are not on the side of the US or Israel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S0TSvwv8X4 http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/12/Fact-Check-Top-Ten-Worst-Lies-by-Joe-Biden-in-VP-Debate
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SkeleTony: For starters, the replacement refs in that game between Seattle and Green bay made the right call as was proven by the end zone camera footage (which nobody ever shows or talks about) that was first seen on Fox Sports. The footage clearly shows Tate catching the ball and having MUCH greater control over the ball while Jennings' valiantly attempt to wrest it away. The NFL rules state that even if it WERE a "simultaneous catch", the tie goes to the offense and the play cannot be a "catch" until the receiver (offense or defense) lands with both feet in bounds. Secondly, Obama never interrupted Romney and most cite that as the reason Obama was thought to have lost the debate by many. Romney did not just lie...he was unable to tell the truth a single time during the debate. Politifact and every other debunking type site were going nuts trying to keep up with all Romeny's lies! So Biden did not let Ryan get away with anything. He refuted Ryan at every dishonest turn and he won the debate. It is only a Vice Presidential debate and won't likely have any effect on the election so whining about this is just silly.
I never said anything about Obama interrupting Romney during their debate. I was talking about Joe Biden constantly interrupting Paul Ryan during that VP debate. My entire post was about the VP debate and not the actual presidential one. Right then there you have to failed.

Also, the claims that Romney was lying is just another typical liberal trash. Obama's campaign has been one of the most dishonest claiming that Romney just wants to "cut taxes for the wealthy" while "raising taxes on the middle class" by ignoring how Romney's tax plan is about simplification and that everyone has the same exact deductibles and credits.
or when Biden claimed that he (meaning Biden) never voted for the Afghanistan War, the Iraq War,
You obviously did not watch the debate because Biden never claimed any such things. And citing Breitbart in support of your claims here is like someone citing Kent Hovind in a science debate.
Did you not see that Youtube clip? Biden accused his political opponents of contributing to the "Great Recession" by ranting about how they, according to him, voted for two wars "on a credit card" and that medicare prescription plan "on a credit card" and then claimed that he voted against them.

Also, Breitbart had it right. You may despise the source but they had it right. To say that Breitbart should not get used is hypocritical due to the fact that nobody has ever bitched about the Huffington Post, Think Progress, or The Young Turks getting used as sources.

Oh by the way, MSNBC has constantly made tons of ridiculous accusations which the commentators and the reporters have yet to apologize for. You bitch about Breitbart and Fox News even though their commentators do admit to making mistakes and apologized for them yet you call yourself a "rationalist" and just bitch about American conservatives being "servants of the so called 'wealthy,'" attack any source of info that doesn't give Obama a blowjob, and disregard anyone who favored Paul Ryan in that debate as "far Right."
Posted October 15, 2012
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tangledblue11: Right, me and 48% of the country are just part of the extreme right-wing and you're smack-dub in the center with no bias and all the answers. Think about what you are saying. I do give you kudos for not trusting the polls. Also, I am not being a dick, but since I try hard to adhere to the character virtues of Washington and Franklin I have to take issue with your honesty remark. The first person not named SkeleTony to reply to this sentence will get any GoG game $10 or less gifted to you.
avatar
SkeleTony: I am not at all in the "center". I am a Liberal, which means I typically have no one to vote for in any election, except in the sense of trying to stop another Bush type regime happening by voting for the lesser of two or three evils. The last Presidential candidate I voted for because I believed in him was Ralph Nader in 2000. And accusing everyone with any position at all of being "biased" is pretty wonky. What does that accomplish besides giving someone an imaginary grounds for discounting the truth if it happens to fall on one side or the other? I am a HUGE advocate of the principles of our founding fathers, including Washington, Franklin and (especially) Jefferson. But I have heard the same from many different people, regardless of whether they were Theocracy advocates who think Christianity should be legislated and mandated or anti-religious secularists who believe that 9-11 was "an inside job". I am neither of those but my point is that saying you adhere to those character virtues does not tell us anything. Perhaps you ARE honest and you really did somehow believe that Ryan won the debate but surely you will understand why I questioned that since you were also claiming that even MSNBC agreed with your absurd analysis! Also every single one of your points was without substance and was something I heard regurgitated at Fox News several times per hour for days on end. That does not sound "independent" to me. Yes I truth MSNBC for the most part because, as a rationalist I must acknowledge the truth regardless of which side it happens to fall on and MSNBC, despite whatever bias you perceive them to have, does not LIE about the issues and when any one of their commentators makes a mistake, they say so on air and correct it. If Rachel Maddow or Andrea Mitchell ever spouts the sort of anti-factual nonsense that Ann Coulter, Bill O'reilly and Sean Hannity spout over on Fox then I will say so and look for a better source for political commentary. I am no Democrat and though I voted Democrat in ONE Presidential election in my life (2008) I won't likely vote that way again. I was a Libertarian from 1992 - 2000 (when I voted for Nader) and since then have had no party affiliation. I am for much tougher laws and punishments for criminals (including support for the death penalty) because I think Liberals have this wrong. I am for legalizing all drugs because I think everyone has this wrong. I am opposed to insurance companies having to cover homeopathy/Naturopathy/accupuncture/Chiropractic because I think my fellows on the Left are wrong about this. I am for much stronger regulations, especially with regard to the environment (which used to be a Conservative value until fairly recently) because Conservatives are not only wrong about this but they are being herded by weal;thy people who stand to make lots of money by destroying the earth. Just so you have a better idea of who it is you are debating here.
I like the way you think, SkeleTony. I agree with much of your sentiment. I'm liberally inclined, but I'm no Democrat. I feel strongly about anti-war and anti-Wall Street greed, and I'd never concede those beliefs to fit in with a major party because someone tells me my vote would be otherwise wasted.

These days we have a right of center party, and a so far right they're off the map party. Our political system and 24/7 media coverage are a complete joke.
Post edited October 15, 2012 by mondo84
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)Vice Presidential Debate-Thoughts(80 posts)(80 posts)
(80 posts)