I already read it, you have an extremely rosy view of the infantile shenanigans that went on. You say you agree with many of the outcomes of the bullshit shenanigans in congress, yet deplore the current state of the economy, much of which is due to said shenanigans.

The (R)s have been every bit as fucking hypocritical and acted the dipshits that they are as the (D)s have been (now and in the past). Look no farther than their about face on "government employment" and how worthless that is when the Pentagon volunteered cuts and they suddenly backpedaled saying "we don't want to hand out pink slips to the employed!".

You may buy into that whole "gridlock is good" thing, Odin knows pundits have been peddling it for decades now (Rush Limbaugh is the oldest peddler of which I can currently think), but it's straight up delusional to ascribe some sort of superior motives to either party at this point, NEITHER ONE HAS EARNED IT. In fact they've earned very little but scorn for decades (with a few outstanding individuals, fuck, Ron Wyden is the only one currently serving of which I can think).

I thought the debate was boring. I did find myself laughing at Biden and his odd facial reactions especially in the split screen. He was definitely overcompensating.

Debates don't matter and VP debates most certainly don't matter. If they do anything, it may attract or depress campaign contributions. But these debates don't move votes.

This election is essentially over and has been for a while. The internal polling has been saying this. Incumbent presidents do not get reelected in a bad economy (and this one is still bad). Many pollsters aren't even bothering with states like Florida or Virginia anymore. If Romney is doing slightly better than W. Bush did in 2004, then Florida and Virginia should be +5 R or more by now.

This debate won't be having an impact and wasn't even entertaining. But it will provide the Internet some video montages of Biden's reactions. I doubt the other two presidential debates will have any impact at all either. People say these debates 'matter', but they never do.

Wow...just...wow... There are no words to describe just how wrong you are. Made no effort to work with anyone in Congress? Conveniently forgetting all the times the Republicans came to the White House during the budget debate? At what point does "working" with them amount to nothing more than wasting time when they have no interest whatsoever in having a mature discussion and act like children who are being told they can't have any candy?

Oh, one other thing...remember Mitch McConnell? Here's a quote from the LA Times:

Because he's ascribing some sort of unified will in the opposition that just doesn't exist. If it did, how did Obama get elected in the first place? Seriously, this is a country obsessed with reality TV and entertainment news, what's more likely, that there's some sort of nationwide "will of the people to put things right and block a popularly elected president right after he gets elected by shifting the congressional majorities (but somehow cannot prevent the tragedy of the "bad president" getting in in the first place)" or just that "this shit is random and often happens"?

Seriously, I wonder about people who buy into the former idea, do they believe in the Illuminati too?

What tangled is saying just smacks of post justification of random events to fit a worldview he finds more pleasant. The reason people are goggling at it is there just isn't much reason to see things that way.

That isn't my name. :P

Thank you too. I didn't say he wasn't wrong or anything, but I don't like when people say "you're so wrong OMG..." with that kind of statement they should have at least handful of strong points to share with everybody. So thank you too for describing.

By the way, as far as I remember the congressial majority was shifted after many Americans were disappointed with Obamas first year or two? I wish we had something like this in Poland - an ability to say "check" in mid-term. Because in Poland after elected the winning party shits all over it's voters, because they are untouchable for next 4 years.

You're speaking of mid-term elections and the phenomenon is fairly frequent in a president's first term. It probably would have happened to Bush in 2002 except Sept. 11th happened in 2001 and the public was largely voting and acting out of their more usual patterns. Even so, I believe (D)s took both halves of congress in 2006 while Bush was in his second (and much less popular) term. If you buy into tangled's fiction that would put the same country wide "will of the people" even more opposed to Bush than to Obama.

(God I wanna smack whoever messed with the forum replies and quoting)

I think the big thing about the midterms, is that most people don't end up voting unless something big is there. I'd like to think that most people stood back a bit mainly to give the system time to work. Government is slow, and rebuilding always takes more time than destruction does (I have some faith in humanity, but I've been wrong). The Tea Party was coming into power then, so that helped push out Democrats, and people who were willing to do what they could to put road blocks into place to keep the process slowed.

The fact of the matter is that what we were left with was a government filled with people who couldn't pass Kindergarten, and were incapable of working with people who didn't side with them. It's a disgrace, plain and simple in my eyes. The Minority party might not be able to get everything they want, but they can temper things and work together, that's what compromise is, and that's what the country is supposed to be built on.

But I could be wrong in thinking that way. I feel like a child everytime I speak up because people act like adults need to do this, when even kids are smarter than this.

Part of the problem that resulted in the midterm turnover was the Democrats, despite having what was it? 59 seats in the Senate?, beforehand were trying, to some extent anyways, to work with people who had no interest in accomplishing anything other than throwing what amounts to temper tantrums. That attempt at bipartisanship resulted in nothing getting done, which in turn resulted in the turnover at midterms. That turnover resulted in even more deadlock and one of the most worthless Congresses to have ever been seated.

Is it any wonder that the Congressional approval is somewhere around 10%?

It's because morons vote for that.

It's as simple as that. They do it and they get votes, they argue properly and they get charged with being elitist and out of touch. Personally, I would much rather have smarter people than I running the country, but most voters would rather have somebody that they would like to have a beer with.

And, I totally agree with you. It's not something that I reward when given the chance because it's stupid.
This time they don't matter. Ryan scares me, but at least he's qualified to be the VP. Palin wasn't qualified to be VP. In fact she didn't even know what the VP does. Which for a politicians seeking the office is absolutely terrifying.

Kind of late posting this but from what I've seen it involved Biden constantly interrupting Ryan like a classless asshole and the moderator allowing him to get away with it. She made those replacement refs at that one football game between Seattle and Green Bay look professional.

My only complaint with Paul Ryan is that he should have been a little more aggressive especially when Biden interrupted or when Biden claimed that he (meaning Biden) never voted for the Afghanistan War, the Iraq War, or the overly expensive medicare drug plan. Ryan should have definitely pounced on Biden when Biden pretended to sound tough by talking about how Obama supposedly got China and Russia to put "devastating... sanctions" on Iran while forgetting that the Chinese government and the Russian government are not on the side of the US or Israel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S0TSvwv8X4

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/12/Fact-Check-Top-Ten-Worst-Lies-by-Joe-Biden-in-VP-Debate

I'm an independent as well (with perhaps more Socialistic opinions than your average American, so some people say I am left-leaning, FYI), and here's where I stand on the current election; It's totally fucked.

Obama is clearly floundering when his four year term is put under the interrogation lights. He's mismanaged a lot of money and, even though he's spent it on causes he stands by (like alternative fuels), we haven't made strides because the investments have been decided upon poorly. He's allowed the government to really bully some people (extraditing a British kid for movie piracy? Yeah, we look like such great people now) and has flip-flopped on his free speech stances. I like his healthcare plan as I think healthcare should be a basic human right, and I also support his execution in killing Bin Laden (some people try to downplay this as either an inevitability or a superficial victory, and I reject both notions). He also mismanages by dumping far too much into security. We've got $8bil invested in the TSA but only $1bil invested in NASA. It should be flip-flopped. Are we better now, financially, than we were in 2008? I would say yes. But should we be even better than we are right now? I would also say yes.

Romney simply scares me because he takes the bullying tactics of Obama to an even farther level. His foreign relations simply don't extend beyond threats and war, and he wants to continue the religious crusade of trampling all over the rights of gays and women. He also seems to wish to maintain a privatized health care industry, which means I would continue to have to live in fear of breaking my leg because I can't afford insurance. Pretty bad when I would expect much better care getting injured in Vietnam or Canada instead of the United States. And that TSA/NASA disparity would likely remain the same even with Romney instead of Obama.

As an independent, I'm just disillusioned that we continue to operate under this half-decade leader choice based on column A and column B. The two-party system is creating a divide in both the government and general populace, and the disparate nature continues to worsen with each term election. I firmly believe that, should America continue to operate this way and not totally revamp the system, we will be facing civil war (probably on the basis of civil liberties like the last one, i.e. gay and women's rights instead of racial rights) in about 8 to 12 years, perhaps even quicker if the tensions worsen in the post-election phase.

For the first time in my life, I am starting to strongly consider becoming an expat. I wouldn't have even dreamed of this five years ago. I think that says it all (for me) about where this country is, and where it's heading

I've been there for awhile, my advice is do it now, before you end up with a situation that gets you "stuck" here. I have been elsewhere and the US is actually really fucking mediocre compared to so many places. There's literally countries that are considered the "developing third world" that beat us on so many criteria it makes me want to puke.

It's been over a decade since I'd say the pledge or sing any sort of patriotic song. My advice is go now, if you don't like it, try somewhere else, I'd bet in 1-3 places you'd find somewhere and never regret your decision for a moment.

Complete absurdity. By your reasoning if a Senator rapes and kills someone, it is okay because the people elected him to do that. PArt of the blame does lie with Barrack because he was under the foolish impression that being 'bipartisan' and trying to bend over and kiss the asses of Republicans would endear him to everyone. He did this at a time when Republicans were running scared, afraid to even call themselves "Republican" (in most states local elections, such as the one in my home state that pitted Dino Rossi (a staunch Republican until 2008 when he went with 'No party affiliation', who is now back to being a Republican) against Christine Gregoire).
And when Barrack did this the Republicans said 'Wha..?! He should be stepping on our throats but he is trying to suck our dicks! Let's go after him!'. They have opposed every single thing he has put forth EVEN WHEN IT WAS A COMPLETELY CONSERVATIVE IDEA which they first suggested or demanded of him.

Sorry to spoil YOUR fiction...