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General discussion (archive)US gov't admits piracy estimates are phony(91 posts)(91 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted April 14, 2010
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Post edited April 14, 2010 by Stuff
Posted April 14, 2010
great find there.
Posted April 14, 2010
Copyright fascism is starting to backfire and I doubt that those responsible can change the course this is now on.
Posted April 14, 2010
I don't think anyone should be surprised buy this. The whole entertainment industry has a policy of scaring governments with hyperbole like this so they will restrict the public's use of the internet. The big publishers are scared because they see a future where they simply don't have a place anymore. Directors, Actors and Writers are annoyed with the movie studios, musical artists don't get anything near what they should after the record companies have had their slice and well we all know how gaming is going (Activision anyone?).
Post edited April 14, 2010 by Delixe
Posted April 14, 2010
What I dislike the most is the continuous escalation of DRM based on phony data. It reached a point, a couple of years ago for me, where I just stopped buying new game releases. I find it amusing that Ubisoft and EA are taking DRM to an even more absurd implementation based on the same or similar data.
Posted April 14, 2010
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Stuff: What I dislike the most is the continuous escalation of DRM based on phony data. It reached a point, a couple of years ago for me, where I just stopped buying new game releases. I find it amusing that Ubisoft and EA are taking DRM to an even more absurd implementation based on the same or similar data.

This has been my exact reaction to increasingly more intrusive DRM methods, with the added bonus that I often use the money saved to invest in my other hobbies. So DRM not only loses the game publishers a sale, it actually pushes my spending towards competing entertainment mediums. Great job think-tank guys. :)
Posted April 14, 2010
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Lobsang1979: ...

I found new interests as well . . . GOG has drawn me back into gaming since all my objections have been eliminated . . .=)
Posted April 14, 2010
Hookers & booze counts as competing entertainment mediums now?
Posted April 14, 2010
The Industry is one big corrupt bowl of monkeys who have no clue what they're doing except for filling their pockets.
Take Timmy. Timmy is 16 and gets 50 euros pocket money every month which he is willing to spend on games. Timmy also has Internet at home.
Now, let's take a look:
Situation A: Timmy sees an ad for a game but it costs 50 euros. He takes a risk and it turns out the game is pretty dull. Timmy just lost an entire month's allowance on a crap game. Still: 50 euros went towards the games industry.
Situation B: Timmy realizes he has Internet and can use it. He sees an ad for a game but downloads it first. The game turns out to be crap so he looks at another game which is fun. He buys the game, spending his 50 euros and is happy. 50 euros went towards the games industry.
What is the difference between A & B? The difference is that the industry got paid for a crap game and the customer was not happy. The thing is, the industry likes it that way. It means crap products still make money and reduce the loss of money even if it was at the expense of the consumer. Yes, the industry doesn't give a sh*t about us as long as they make money. BUT, in the end, the same amount of money went into the industry except now the people who deserved it got it instead.
In the end, piracy is about a person A having a limited amount of money and choosing where to spend it. THIS is what the industry needs to realize. Their "theory" seems to rest on the fact that consumers have bottomless pockets where each game they try is a lost sale. NO IT'S NOT.
Most people can only afford one or two games a month and what piracy really does, is give gamers a better reason to invest in an expensive PC. If a PC costs €1500 to play games, and games another €50, it would become too expensive for many if they couldn't play more games on the side for free. Yes it sucks they can't afford to buy all games but their limited money still goes into that same industry so in the end, it makes NO difference. Heck, many PC gamers would just stop buying PCs and PC game sales would drop even more if they had to buy every game to play it with the risk of getting ripped off.
Posted April 14, 2010
Also note that there's a distinct lack of demos around these days, almost like they didn't want you to realise how shit the games are...
Posted April 14, 2010
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Red_Avatar: The Industry is one big corrupt bowl of monkeys who have no clue what they're doing except for filling their pockets.
Take Timmy. Timmy is 16 and gets 50 euros pocket money every month which he is willing to spend on games. Timmy also has Internet at home.
Now, let's take a look:
Situation A: Timmy sees an ad for a game but it costs 50 euros. He takes a risk and it turns out the game is pretty dull. Timmy just lost an entire month's allowance on a crap game. Still: 50 euros went towards the games industry.
Situation B: Timmy realizes he has Internet and can use it. He sees an ad for a game but downloads it first. The game turns out to be crap so he looks at another game which is fun. He buys the game, spending his 50 euros and is happy. 50 euros went towards the games industry.
What is the difference between A & B? The difference is that the industry got paid for a crap game and the customer was not happy. The thing is, the industry likes it that way. It means crap products still make money and reduce the loss of money even if it was at the expense of the consumer. Yes, the industry doesn't give a sh*t about us as long as they make money. BUT, in the end, the same amount of money went into the industry except now the people who deserved it got it instead.
In the end, piracy is about a person A having a limited amount of money and choosing where to spend it. THIS is what the industry needs to realize. Their "theory" seems to rest on the fact that consumers have bottomless pockets where each game they try is a lost sale. NO IT'S NOT.
Most people can only afford one or two games a month and what piracy really does, is give gamers a better reason to invest in an expensive PC. If a PC costs €1500 to play games, and games another €50, it would become too expensive for many if they couldn't play more games on the side for free. Yes it sucks they can't afford to buy all games but their limited money still goes into that same industry so in the end, it makes NO difference. Heck, many PC gamers would just stop buying PCs and PC game sales would drop even more if they had to buy every game to play it with the risk of getting ripped off.

You forget the third, and much more likely option:
Timmy downloads the game. he plays it and enjoys it, but would rather not spend 50 euros. He downloads another game instead.
Just saying :p
Posted April 14, 2010
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Red_Avatar: In the end, piracy is about a person A having a limited amount of money and choosing where to spend it. THIS is what the industry needs to realize. Their "theory" seems to rest on the fact that consumers have bottomless pockets where each game they try is a lost sale. NO IT'S NOT.
Most people can only afford one or two games a month and what piracy really does, is give gamers a better reason to invest in an expensive PC. If a PC costs €1500 to play games, and games another €50, it would become too expensive for many if they couldn't play more games on the side for free. Yes it sucks they can't afford to buy all games but their limited money still goes into that same industry so in the end, it makes NO difference. Heck, many PC gamers would just stop buying PCs and PC game sales would drop even more if they had to buy every game to play it with the risk of getting ripped off.

It's worse than that : most gamers are probably going to be teens, early twenties, maybe thirties, low-income jobs, lots of monthly bills, sometimes "emergencies" to cater to....£$$60 a game for 10-20 hours play? and running the risk of being burned by hyperbolic shite touted as honest reviews on a very crap game?
Demos can be useful, but if it's a brand new game, and the demo is from an earlier part of its development, they're going to be burned again.
I've downloaded stuff in the past as a "try before you buy" and either deleted it almost immediately, or went out to spend real money on the product.
These days, with the state of what is laughingly called games, I don't even bother downloading to try, let alone buy. I *know* its going to be a steaming pile and not worth £15, let alone 3 times that.
Long live the Gog!
Posted April 14, 2010
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Aliasalpha: Also note that there's a distinct lack of demos around these days, almost like they didn't want you to realise how shit the games are...

Definitely part of the problem - I tried to keep it simple but yeah, the industry does everything to make you gamble money. Killing the second hand market is just another step to stop consumers from trying to limit the money the lose from gambling.
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Gundato: You forget the third, and much more likely option:
Timmy downloads the game. he plays it and enjoys it, but would rather not spend 50 euros. He downloads another game instead.
Just saying :p

I didn't forget that - that's why I started with "Timmy is 16 and gets 50 euros pocket money every month which he is willing to spend on games." The "willing" part is important ;). But I know a LOT more people who buy games & pirate some as well than people who buy none and only pirate. I even know more people who ONLY buy games than those who only pirate so I don't believe for a minute that most consumers are as bad as the industry makes them out to be. Not in the West anyway.
Post edited April 14, 2010 by Red_Avatar
Posted April 14, 2010
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Aliasalpha: Also note that there's a distinct lack of demos around these days, almost like they didn't want you to realise how shit the games are...
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Red_Avatar: Definitely part of the problem - I tried to keep it simple but yeah, the industry does everything to make you gamble money. Killing the second hand market is just another step to stop consumers from trying to limit the money the lose from gambling.
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Gundato: You forget the third, and much more likely option:
Timmy downloads the game. he plays it and enjoys it, but would rather not spend 50 euros. He downloads another game instead.
Just saying :p

I didn't forget that - that's why I started with "Timmy is 16 and gets 50 euros pocket money every month which he is willing to spend on games." The "willing" part is important ;). But I know a LOT more people who buy games & pirate some as well than people who buy none and only pirate. I even know more people who ONLY buy games than those who only pirate so I don't believe for a minute that most consumers are as bad as the industry makes them out to be. Not in the West anyway.

True, but you open up a can of worms when you start using piracy as a way to avoid paying for "bad" games. Because then you run into "Well, what is a game worth?"
Then it becomes a matter of pirating a game, and maybe buying it when it is cheaper. That works PERFECTLY for singleplayer games, not so much for multiplayer. Which is probably why multiplayer has gained such a huge focus. It is the better investment from a dev/publisher point of view.
Posted April 14, 2010
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Gundato: True, but you open up a can of worms when you start using piracy as a way to avoid paying for "bad" games. Because then you run into "Well, what is a game worth?"

Oh the answer is: what someone is willing to pay for it without feeling cheated. Especially people with older PCs like piracy because then they can test a game to see how well it will run so it's not just a matter of how good a game is but also of practical use. Many stores won't allow you to return games even if you want to swap them so you're easily screwed as consumer.
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Gundato: Then it becomes a matter of pirating a game, and maybe buying it when it is cheaper. That works PERFECTLY for singleplayer games, not so much for multiplayer. Which is probably why multiplayer has gained such a huge focus. It is the better investment from a dev/publisher point of view.

You're right here. If you can wait to buy a game and instead buy two games for the price of one ... but again, the same amount of money is being spent in the end.
A study showed a year or so ago that people tend to spend money within an area of interest and if they don't spend it on A, they'll spend it on B. The study was not about games but about music and books but it still applies.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)US gov't admits piracy estimates are phony(91 posts)(91 posts)
(91 posts)