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General discussion (archive)U.S. game sales paint bleak picture for retail(47 posts)(47 posts)
(47 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 14, 2012
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PhoenixWright: $1 * (thousands) != 0?
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Skystrider: Remember that PayPal, Amazon and Google Checkout all take a percentage of the proceedings, so the indies and charities would be left with nothing but a few cents from one dollar purchases. If that. I think we can all agree that they deserve way, way more.
very good point , paypal specially eats up a lot in transaction fees , so probably those 1 cent /1$ purchases are actually losses for the bundle
Posted March 14, 2012
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Skystrider: Remember that PayPal, Amazon and Google Checkout all take a percentage of the proceedings, so the indies and charities would be left with nothing but a few cents from one dollar purchases. If that. I think we can all agree that they deserve way, way more.
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liquidsnakehpks: very good point , paypal specially eats up a lot in transaction fees , so probably those 1 cent /1$ purchases are actually losses for the bundle
I've known a few business owners in my life and they all told me a Visa purchase under $3 ends up costing them more than the profit margin.
Posted March 14, 2012
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Skystrider: Remember that PayPal, Amazon and Google Checkout all take a percentage of the proceedings, so the indies and charities would be left with nothing but a few cents from one dollar purchases. If that. I think we can all agree that they deserve way, way more.
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PhoenixWright: I can definitely agree. Mainly I am frustrated at the comparison drawn between customers paying a small amount of money and piracy.
Piracy is considered bad because it hurts the dev. Paying one dollar on such a bundle is definitely hurting the dev. Therefore it is better to pirate such a bundle and don't pay a low price.

I just find it amusing how people call damnation on pirates but cause more harm themselves due to their cheapness.
Posted March 14, 2012
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SimonG: Err, you have noticed that we are talking about retail here. Gaming itself is doing very fine.
For PC, maybe so. I don't buy retail games either, besides some rare old games once in a blue moon.

But the interesting thing was that this was about console gaming mostly, where retail is still the default way to get your games, I'd think. I guess XBox360 and PSN have downloadable games too, but have their sales increased the same as retail sales have declined?

Then again, maybe the casual (console) gamers have simply started moving from consoles to IPhones and IPads to buy $0.99 - $2 games. At least Nintendo has already complained about smartphone game market destroying their (console & handheld) market.

EDIT: Fortunately they can hardly blame piracy for this console retail game decline either, they'll have to come up with some other explanation this time.
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kavazovangel: It is bad that some people will probably lose their jobs because retail stores will close, yes, but in any case, I am all for DD.
They'll just have to find new jobs, like the unemployed ladies working at telephone exchanges had to. :) Usually these kind of shifts just create new jobs elsewhere.
Post edited March 14, 2012 by timppu
Posted March 14, 2012
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Heretic777: 1. I used to buy retail games, but never again. Only digital download versions from now on. Dungeon Siege III and Duke Nukem Forever onsale for $5 at Amazon less than six months after release! and i also got $5 coupons that i used to buy GTA4 and Dead Space 2 for FREE. How can retail compete with that?
I agree, but we'll see whether this is just a temporary situation, as the various digital outlets are still hurrying to cement people to their service by offering them loads of cheap games. People who have lots of games in their service are less likely to buy games from other services, let alone jump ship altogether to the competitor.

When there are no more new potential customers or converts, and some outlets have gone belly up, probably the remaining ones will start making promo discounts must less aggressive and frequent.

But, let's enjoy the crazy "95% off!!!" deals while they last.
Post edited March 14, 2012 by timppu
Posted March 14, 2012
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SimonG: Err, you have noticed that we are talking about retail here. Gaming itself is doing very fine.
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timppu: For PC, maybe so. I don't buy retail games either, besides some rare old games once in a blue moon.

But the interesting thing was that this was about console gaming mostly, where retail is still the default way to get your games, I'd think. I guess XBox360 and PSN have downloadable games too, but have their sales increased the same as retail sales have declined?

Then again, maybe the casual (console) gamers have simply started moving from consoles to IPhones and IPads to buy $0.99 - $2 games. At least Nintendo has already complained about smartphone game market destroying their (console & handheld) market.

EDIT: Fortunately they can hardly blame piracy for this console retail game decline either, they'll have to come up with some other explanation this time.
My more detailed thoughts regarding this, and recession etc, are that us more dedicated gaming enthusiasts (I am reluctant to use the term hardcore) are more likely to know about the cheaper prices to be had through online retailers, digital distribution, etc as opposed to shopping on the high street. We're also the ones that are more likely to continue spending on games when times are tough and people are looking to cut down on their outgoings.

Conversely, I would expect that more casual gamers would primarily buy their games from retail stores, and would also be those more likely to reduce their spending on games in a period of financial uncertainty. As such, I'd expect retail to bear the brunt of any reduction in games purchasing...

Of course, I'm assuming a lot there!
Posted March 14, 2012
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PhoenixWright: I can definitely agree. Mainly I am frustrated at the comparison drawn between customers paying a small amount of money and piracy.
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SimonG: Piracy is considered bad because it hurts the dev. Paying one dollar on such a bundle is definitely hurting the dev. Therefore it is better to pirate such a bundle and don't pay a low price.

I just find it amusing how people call damnation on pirates but cause more harm themselves due to their cheapness.
I read somewhere that HIB needed a 42 cent pledge to break even on fees. I don't know if it's true, but anyone paying under a buck better actually be dirt poor, imo, or I'd rather they pirated it too. Screwing over HIB with a ton of 1 cent purchases is the only thing that pisses me off even more.
Posted March 14, 2012
May be I'm getting old, but as nice as some new games are, I just don't need them at 60$. If the world stopped making new games tomorrow I could spend the rest of my life trying games I've never gotten around to and playing a hand full of my favorites that never get old. There is just no need to drive me to overspend on a new luxury item when there are so many alternatives from the past. That may or may not be an argument for streaming services. If it is I'm saddened by my own words, but the truth is I didn't even get around to getting a 360 until a couple of years ago.
Posted March 14, 2012
I wonder how many "great sales" there will be when games are no longer sold in stores.

We used to have two video stores in town. One went out of business, and the next thing you know, the one that was left raised prices. Imagine that.

Digital is great, I agree, simply because it's more convenient - but I also think that this approach of "All digital! Nothing in stores!" is ultimately going to screw things up at some point.
Posted March 15, 2012
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DieRuhe: Digital is great, I agree, simply because it's more convenient - but I also think that this approach of "All digital! Nothing in stores!" is ultimately going to screw things up at some point.
Well that's why publishers are pushing it so hard... no resale, no discounts without their approval, no limited supply, no physical production costs, customers accept DRM, etc. It's a corporate wet dream and customers support it because it's more convenient.
Posted March 15, 2012
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SimonG: Piracy is considered bad because it hurts the dev. Paying one dollar on such a bundle is definitely hurting the dev. Therefore it is better to pirate such a bundle and don't pay a low price.

I just find it amusing how people call damnation on pirates but cause more harm themselves due to their cheapness.
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orcishgamer: I read somewhere that HIB needed a 42 cent pledge to break even on fees. I don't know if it's true, but anyone paying under a buck better actually be dirt poor, imo, or I'd rather they pirated it too. Screwing over HIB with a ton of 1 cent purchases is the only thing that pisses me off even more.
I personally still don't see the real problem, because it is up to the developers/publishers, they get to decide their pricing model. If they let the customer decide how much to pay, there's no reason to complain if many go with e.g. $1. I guess that's why they are adding certain perks for those who pay more, e.g. an extra game to the bundle if you pay more than the current average price (this was the case in the only indie bundle I've bought so far, the "Humble Bundle for Android" (PC versions included too)).

Piracy is different, there the publisher is not in control at all, hence it just isn't the same.

Anyway, I think I paid around 6€ or so for that bundle above. Since I wasn't sure what to expect about the games, I wasn't sure if I was being too cheap or paying too much.

In retrospect, at least I'm happy I didn't pay more. Of the games included in the bundle, only "World of Goo" feels remotely interesting to me. The others (Anomaly, EDGE, Osmos, Toki Tori) don't feel interesting even as freeware games, the little I've tried them. They feel about the same as some old mobile games on my old Nokia phone. So for me, maybe 6€ was about right, or even too much, for that bundle. I guess I got it mostly for World of Goo, as I had heard some good things about it.
Post edited March 15, 2012 by timppu
Posted March 15, 2012
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timppu: In retrospect, at least I'm happy I didn't pay more. Of the games included in the bundle, only "World of Goo" feels remotely interesting to me. The others (Anomaly, EDGE, Osmos, Toki Tori) don't feel interesting even as freeware games, the little I've tried them. They feel about the same as some old mobile games on my old Nokia phone. So for me, maybe 6€ was about right, or even too much, for that bundle. I guess I got it mostly for World of Goo, as I had heard some good things about it.
The dirty secret of all these "OMG indie revolution" articles and hype is that most of those games suck or are just empty fun for a afternoon. I've bought pretty much every bundle but barely played any of the games. I am sick of wasting my money on shit I will never play out of some weird political motivation no one really cares about.

That said Super Meat Boy was amazing. Castle Crashers too. There is something to be said for Xbox Live's filtering of the crap from the good, honestly.
Posted March 15, 2012
I hope all retail gets shut down with the exception of stuff you need daily like food, hygiene, etc. And I also hope internet cafes with good security measures (yes, we talk for example about wiping the system with a standard backup after every user) get very much widespread.

There is no reason why retail should exist anymore. If you need physical stuff, you can order it via post or internet. Dinosaurs simply must extinct!
Posted March 15, 2012
The economics of games is very simple, and this is how it works.

Create something I am interested in, I am likely to buy it.

Create something I am not interested in, I will keep playing what I enjoy, no need for me to play something just because it is 'newer'. That's a sorry excuse to ditch something I enjoy.

Equally, create something I despise, such as an unfinished product which I get charged full price for (ie buggy, content being patched in later or content which was once considered an unlockable being charged for as DLC) and I'll skip.

Sure I am only one person, but I'm sure I'm not the only gamer with a functioning brain.
Posted March 15, 2012
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DieRuhe: I wonder how many "great sales" there will be when games are no longer sold in stores.

We used to have two video stores in town. One went out of business, and the next thing you know, the one that was left raised prices. Imagine that.

Digital is great, I agree, simply because it's more convenient - but I also think that this approach of "All digital! Nothing in stores!" is ultimately going to screw things up at some point.
Actually no. Even if their would be only one distributor left, they still would sell their games as sales and very cheap because you get more profits with many small priced sales than few big priced.

And there is always piracy as the big contender. And there are several DD directly competing with each other, so it won't screw us in the end.

There is simply no point in physical media as a method to deliver games anymore.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)U.S. game sales paint bleak picture for retail(47 posts)(47 posts)
(47 posts)