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gameon: As i haven't played any of the other Ultima games, i don't know what Ultima 9 does to tarnish the reputation. Without any spoilers, does it change the storyline or something?

I heard that Ultima 8 wasn't quite up to par either.

I'd also like to know which of the Ultima games is considered the best, and why?
Yes. The main problem with Ultima 9 is that it takes incredible liberties with the established setting, to the point where it simply is a better idea to consider it a game entirely separate from the Ultima series. But seen as a game separate from the series, it is not based. It has some flaws, sure, but there are also some great parts in it.

Ultima 8 was unfinished. Had it been given the time it deserved, it could have been great, but you can see where they cut some major corners when making the game. Also, when the game was released, it had some absolutely horrific platform segments, which the patch then made stupidly easy (but even then you could die due to engine quirks), so they went from frustrating to pointless timewasters. Still, I enjoyed the game.

Best is Ultima 7. Can't decide if part 1 or 2 is better, but both should be played and enjoyed (don't let the "part 1 & 2" bit fool you, they are two entirely separate games, though they are connected in the same way as games in a series usually are. Worth pointing out is that Ultima Underworld 2 takes place between these two).
Ultima Underworld 2 is the second best part of the series.
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gameon: Woah! Are you going to start from Ultima 1?

It would be nice to know if it's easy to get into or not. Strangely, because of Ultima 9, i am interested in the rest of the Ultima series.

I forgot that Ultima 4 and Ultima Worlds 1+2 are free on GOG. What are they like?
Ultima 1 is easy enough to get into. It can be a bit frustrating and it sometimes feels like the game is just wasting your time, but it is still playable. I would not try to actually beat it though, but rather just play it until it gets boring.
Ultima 2 is a pain. I don't like it.
Ultima 3 is relatively nice. It actually has a decent enough story, unlike the first two, but it still suffers from some frustrating design choices.
Ultima 4 is an interesting game. It paved way for story driven CRPGs, and while it still suffer from several outdated design choices, it is playable. I would recommend looking at a walkthrough if you get stuck though, it can be a bit hard to muscle your way through that game.

As for World of Ultima, I'm not the person you should ask. I hate the Ultima 6 engine with passion.
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AFnord: Ultima 1 is easy enough to get into. It can be a bit frustrating and it sometimes feels like the game is just wasting your time, but it is still playable. I would not try to actually beat it though, but rather just play it until it gets boring.
Ultima 2 is a pain. I don't like it.
Ultima 3 is relatively nice. It actually has a decent enough story, unlike the first two, but it still suffers from some frustrating design choices.
Ultima 4 is an interesting game. It paved way for story driven CRPGs, and while it still suffer from several outdated design choices, it is playable. I would recommend looking at a walkthrough if you get stuck though, it can be a bit hard to muscle your way through that game.

As for World of Ultima, I'm not the person you should ask. I hate the Ultima 6 engine with passion.
Thanks Afnord. As i don't have those Ultima games, i was wondering whether they would be worth getting. From that kind of response, it seems like something i should pick up once i haven't got much left on my wishlist. Once i've finished 9, i will check out the free ultima games to guage whether to get the old ones or not.

Woah! Are you going to start from Ultima 1?
I forgot that Ultima 4 and Ultima Worlds 1+2 are free on GOG. What are they like?
Ultima 1-3 are still fairly simple. They don't take very many days to complete in this age, when you don't have to wait for them to finish loading from floppy disk anymore.

Ultima 4 is more complex and very satisfying.

Ultima 5 is very very good too. Much recommended.

Ultima 6 tries a newer kind of an engine, which I don't like much. The Ultima Worlds of Adventure 1+2 are based on it too. I seem to remember that the game suffered from this, becoming much shorter and simpler.

Ultima 7 is a lasting favourite for many people. You should definitely try it. I played it later in life and wasn't retro enough to run the original game, so I used the Exult engine re-implementation for a more modern experience. Perhaps one day I'll still play it with the original engine.

Ultima 8 is different and I haven't really gotten started with it. It wasn't very well liked when it came out, but apparently a patch that came out long after everyone had given up alreadyfixes most of what was wrong with the game and actually makes it an interesting experience. I don't know this first hand, though.

Ultima 9 is again very different and I think it suffered from some development hell that left a lot of the planned story cut, and not all of the remainder making too much sense. There's also plenty of references to older games that seem to have been poorly understood by the developers, and even some of the fundamental ideas that seem to have gone wrong somehow.

Don't forget the Ultima Underworld games! They're totally worth your time.
Post edited January 17, 2013 by Rixasha
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gameon: Thanks Afnord. As i don't have those Ultima games, i was wondering whether they would be worth getting. From that kind of response, it seems like something i should pick up once i haven't got much left on my wishlist. Once i've finished 9, i will check out the free ultima games to guage whether to get the old ones or not.
That is probably a good idea. Ultima 4 & 5 are somewhat similar (though 5 is better in almost every way), and Worlds & Ultima 6 are similar in terms of gameplay (though the feel is quite different). 7 & Underworld are worth picking up though.
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Rixasha: Ultima 7 is a lasting favourite for many people. You should definitely try it. I played it later in life and wasn't retro enough to run the original game, so I used the Exult engine re-implementation for a more modern experience. Perhaps one day I'll still play it with the original engine.
It is not really worth playing without Exult. The key ring is reason alone to never play Ultima 7 part 1 without it.
Post edited January 17, 2013 by AFnord
Fnord?
Umm. Weren't you involved with Exult when it started out as a little UDIC project?

Back to topic.

Worlds of Ultima are strangely cool. In a H. Rider Haggard, Arthur Conand Doyle and Jules Verne sense of cool.

I remember that back in the day I got severely stuck both in Eodon and on Mars. You will definitely need a walkthrough.

Ultima Underworld was a revolution. This was years before Doom and contrary to Doom it had a real 3D engine. While "does it run Crysis" is a modern Internet meme, back then we bragged about our computers actually running Underworld 2 in the school yard.

Ultima 7 still is a standout game. No RPG ever since did not have a UI. It does not have a UI. If you want to take a look on the map, it's in your backpack. Same for your gold. No health bars, no crosshairs no nothing to clutter the screen. when it was released(and your sanity survived your first encounter with VooDoo) then you were confronted with a game that made your screen look huge. 320x200 pixels of Britannia with no pixel wasted. It was a huge step up from an already superb Ultima 6. An open world with stuff to do around every corner(including baking your own bread). NPCs with an actual schedule. Modern games are lauded when they have that. Ultima fans cried foul when we didn't get it with Ultima 8.

Ultima 8 is a very good game but a lousy Ultima game. Ultima 9 had such a troubled development history that we were astonished that it was ever released. Do you think that Jay Wilson got a lot of stink in the last year? Double that and then triple that and you will get the amount of stink Ed del Castilio got. Deservedly or undeservedly. Ultima 9 had the misfortune to be delayed until 3D was the fad of the month. So it was rewritten not once but twice. Also UO took off in a big way and U9 was neglected in favour of a wood chopping simulator. U9 was released in an abortive and shameful state and it took an unofficial patch to make it finishable. U8 and U9 never felt like an Ultima game. But where U8 was a really good game U9 was just a bloody mess.

Don't get me started on Ultima!

UDIC
Older, but not wiser.
Post edited January 17, 2013 by bfandreas
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bfandreas: Fnord?
Umm. Weren't you involved with Exult when it started out as a little UDIC project?

Back to topic.
You're the second person to ask me that! No, I'm not the same Fnord.
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bfandreas: An open world with stuff to do around every corner(including baking your own bread). NPCs with an actual schedule. Modern games are lauded when they have that. Ultima fans cried foul when we didn't get it with Ultima 8.
Therein kind of lives the problem with comparing games to Ultima 7 -- not just Ultima 8, I mean. I don't think any have really hit that level of detail in terms of the game world, with the exception of maybe Gothic 2 -- and if anyone can come up with some other examples, I'm all ears.

It's why the TES approach to game worlds is so... maddening to me. I don't care how many people call Daggerfall an absolute classic. It's huge, yeah, but you couldn't really DO anything in it, and every town was the same. Ultima 7 has, all things considered, a relatively small gameworld in terms of real-estate, but everything DOES something. Everything was put where it was for a purpose.

It's funny -- you could argue that Ultima 7's 'core' gameplay suffered for the focus on being a... well, reality simulator, if you take the core gameplay of an RPG as being the combat and character building -- two things Ultima 6 and ESPECIALLY 7 were both pretty light on. On the other hand, Ultima 7 was more about exploration and puzzle solving and navigating NPCs than combat -- same for Ultima 4 onward, really.

Seriously though, worst Ultima game? 2. Easily. It combines Ultima 9's penchant for not making any sense with Daggerfall's penchant for having huge empty world's with Akalabeth's penchant for being deeply old and grindy.
So... what's a paladin? :)

But seriously i find ultima 8 rather interesting because of its environment which sure is all grey and full of zombies but also has quite a gloomy appeal. I had big problems with ultima 6 though. Its interface was something terrible to work with so i just couldn't go on playing the game nor the ultima worlds games.
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XYCat: So... what's a paladin? :)
I'm not entirely sure.
"Define 'interesting'!"
"Oh god, oh god, we're all gonna die?"

Oh, alright then...
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Randalator:
"Define 'interesting'!"

"Oh god, oh god, we're all gonna die?"

Oh, alright then...
To me, Ultima 9 has a decent atmosphere. It is a proper fantasy world/setting. The music really adds to it. That to me is interesting. Not to mention the fact that, from never playing any Ultima games before, it has surprised me how much i like it, despite it being hated by most gamers.
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XYCat: So... what's a paladin? :)
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ydobemos: I'm not entirely sure.
?

Your knowledge of the land shall be great.
9 is a good RPG but horrible as a continuation of Ultima story
8 has nice atmosphere and decent enough gameplay
7 is awesome
I haven't played rest yet
I thought I'd still recommend that if you happen to own Dungeon Siege, you should definitely give the Lazarus re-make of Ultima 5 a try. It's a mod with all the story of the original Ultima 5 and more.

If you don't have Dungeon Siege, it's totally worth getting just for Lazarus. I did.

If you want to start from the oldest Ultimas, you should also be aware that there are third-party patches for the PC versions that make them a bit prettier to look at than they originally were.
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Rixasha: If you want to start from the oldest Ultimas, you should also be aware that there are third-party patches for the PC versions that make them a bit prettier to look at than they originally were.
I actually grew up with an Atari 2600, so it's not so bad to be honest.