It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
HijacK: How exactly is it 50$ worth if it has been so long since it was released?
avatar
skeletonbow: Right now it isn't. I was speaking of the original price of the game at the time it came out plus the price of the various DLC when it came out being valued in that ballpark at that time.

avatar
HijacK: You may not realize, but games go down in value with time.
avatar
skeletonbow: Oh I fully realize that, and that is one of the main points I was making in my message however I'm not sure how you interpreted what I said to be the reverse to be honest. Read it too quickly perhaps? :)

I see games come out at $30/40/50/60 or more on release day, and then depending on the game the regular price drops down $5-10 after so many months, then another $5-10 months later, etc. to the point where the majority of games are less than $10 within 12 months of their initial release. Take Tomb Raider (2013) or Bioshock Infinite for example. $50-60 games on release day. One year later $10 on seasonal promos or cheaper if bought in a bundle with part or all of their prior game series.

The market is so flooded with games nowadays that it's hard to believe any PC gamer doesn't have 100-1000 games stockpiled to keep them busy for 10 lifetimes, with little incentive generally speaking to fork out $60 for every cool game that comes out on release day which they'd like to play. Everyone's gaming habits vary of course, but there aren't going to be very many games that get $30+ out of me on release day or at any point after that. Most games I buy will be $3 or less simply because as interesting as they may be, I generally have ample to keep me busy and can wait 4/8/12/16/20/24 months or whatever until the game is $2/3/5 etc. Very very few games can sustain a high price over the long haul. Even if someone points out a title that is $50+ 2/3/4/5 years after it first came out, for every one game like that there are 2000 that are 10% of their initial retail price in under a year or less.

avatar
HijacK: And unless they are in physical form and in a very limited number, you won't see that value grow with time. And value will never grow for games that are downloadable, maybe just for their physical forms and if they are very limited, though there are exceptions like Earthbound. As for the rest of what you said, this is basically the same type of mentality that makes publishers milk the industry on DLC and lowers production value of a game is the game does not receive enough attention from the public.
What you're doing is up to you though. I'm not criticizing, I'm just explaining the effects that actions of thousands of gamers have.
avatar
skeletonbow: It's free market capitalism and freedom of choice. Supply and demand, economics 101, etc. None of us including myself are under any obligation to buy any video games or play them ever, and no company is under any obligation to make them. They make what they want to make how they want to make it, and if we like what we see and want to have it and we can agree on a price point then we might buy it.

If a game publisher can't survive in the marketplace under the free market driven by consumer demand regardless of what consumers choose or how much a individual consumer or the entire cross section of consumers is willing to pay (for whatever their own individual reasons might be) then they will either adapt to the changing demands of the consumer and/or alter their busines model or they will eventually go out of business while someone else takes their place.

I wonder how much money the game industry made off me between 2006 and 2012 when I completely stopped buying video games entirely and just played the 2006 and older games I already owned. I was not under any obligation to buy their games, and if the industry suffered, it is because they didn't offer me what I wanted at that time and I have a completely clear conscience about whatever may or may not have happened in that time. Now I am buying games again because there is something out there that I perceive of value to me at a price that sinks the deal for me.

Publishers/developers can design whatever game however they like, and can use whatever monetization model they like with it and I'm perfectly fine with that. If they want to put out a 10 minute game with 500 DLC each of another 10 minutes long and that sells and makes billions, I'll probably buy some of their publicly traded stock and come along for the ride. But I'm not interested in that type of game and would never buy it.

Wherever the market goes no matter where that might be, I am completely ok with that even if no company makes any games I'm interested in. They shouldn't make games for me or price them the way I want. They should design games they think are a good business investment and price them how they think the current market at a given time is willing to pay for them.

Free market capitalism when it is working correctly separates the good ideas from the bad ideas and I support that whether what is on the market is something I wish to own and part with my money for it or not.

What I decide to do with my money doesn't drive the market. But if there are enough like minded people voting with their wallet and a company can't make profit from what they're doing - then they're doing it wrong and either someone else will come along and do it right, or they'll figure it out themselves.

Ubisoft should go nuts and make games however they want. They wont see any of my money unless they make a game I find interesting though and it shows up on GOG.com DRM-free for $3 or less, or $5 or less if it is particularly appealing to me. If they put up a big kick ass AAA title on day-1 DRM-free here, hell I'll spring full price for it much like I plan on doing for The Witcher 3. If not, they wont see my money though and if they go out of business entirely tomorrow I'll sleep like a baby, guilt free as it isn't my responsibility to keep them alive, it's their own bean counter's job.

One should think about how much money a game company makes selling their games digital download at $3 per game versus not selling any of them at all. If they put a price on a game of $3 and it is still around in stores tomorrow, a week later, a month later, then it's making them money.

If they want the big money from me for one of their games (any company) though, then they'll need to take some lessons from CD Projekt RED. I've got $50ish sitting aside here smiling at me waiting for me to hand it to them as The WItcher 3 release date nears. Cyberpunk 2077 is next on deck for me after that. The rest of the game industry won't get a dime more from me than I feel like parting with though, and if that displeases them in any way, I'll keep my money and they can keep their games.

I'll sleep like a baby. Like a baby.
Holy shit! That last post is so tl;dr! O_O In any case, I'll say it once again. I'm not criticizing or judging, so no need to explain yourself for what you do. In any case. Haven't gotten around your full post. Too long to read it right now. I'll make some time for that later.
avatar
skeletonbow: I'll sleep like a baby. Like a baby.
You do know babies wake up and scream a lot? ;)
avatar
Tarm: You do know babies wake up and scream a lot? ;)
No problem, I love Postal 2, and I own a Blendtec blender. :) No babies here, but I'm over-prepared nonetheless. :)
avatar
Johnathanamz: There are quite a few video games sold on Steam which have their expansion pack(s) sold separately and are labeled as a expansion pack in the Steam store page description.

Rome: Total War - Alexander is one of them go look on the Steam store page.

I will argue what a expansion pack is, what a DLC is, and what a add-on is. As much as I want.
avatar
HijacK: Nobody said you can't argue. Just don't blame others when you look funny for arguing "to fuck" doesn't mean to engage in sexual intercourse.
And I will tell you once again, because apparently your reading skill is either low or you didn't bother to read what I said. Expansion pack and add-on are related to the size. DLC is related to how is distributed. It's available on Steam? Yes, then it's a fucking DLC. It's available from a disc? Then it's fucking extra content that comes from a disc. Whether it is an expansion pack or add-on, it does not matter, as that has no fucking relevance to the way it is distributed.
avatar
rtcvb32: I agree with it. Let's take a famous game, oh... Final Fantasy 13-2. Quite a few DLC's are individual clothing addons. Sure there's at least one or two DLC's for free, but quite a few other outfits are simply that, single addon's that don't add much to the game unless you really want to see a character prancing in some other outfit.

Then we have expansion pack, let's say, Morrowind - Tribunal. This adds something like 100 quests, new maps, new armor, weapons, clothing, and another 10 hours of gameplay. (I think 200 Megs of content, while Bloodmoon had 400 Megs of content I think).

Now let's see what should have been a DLC had it been an option at the time. Halo 2, which had a map pack. This included 4-5 maps.... and that's about it...

Small changes/mods should be DLC and should be extremely cheap (25 cents maybe) while an expansion is a large addition to the game, enough to warrent $5-$10 dollars.
avatar
HijacK: How is exactly is the method of distribution related to the size? And for crying out loud, Halo had that exact map pack you are talking about in a physical form too. Yes, a fucking disc that added the same thing as the downloadable thing. Woot? Halo had physical discs with map packs? Yes, yes it had, and no, in that case, they were just map packs, not DLC, because you were not downloading them.
When did I blame other people? I never blamed other people at all.

All I said even if you purchase a expansion pack digitally from the internet from gog.com, Steam or some other website it is still called a expansion pack not a DownLoadable Content (DLC).

You keep saying it is called a DownLoadable Content (DLC) but it's not.

For me to distinguish what a expansion pack is or what DLC is a expansion pack gives 10 hours or 10+ hours of gameplay to the main video game itself. Where as DLC do not they only give 1 new gun skin or 10 new quests. It's easier for me to call a expansion pack a expansion pack for the content it gives to the main video game itself and a DLC a DLC for what it gives the main video game itself. End of story.
I won't never buy skins, or time saver, or any crappy DLC to incentive this crappy way of thinking.
avatar
skeletonbow: I'll sleep like a baby. Like a baby.
avatar
Tarm: You do know babies wake up and scream a lot? ;)
Ah yes, here we go... :)
Attachments:
solution.jpg (13 Kb)
avatar
johnnygoging: yes, there is a distinction between "DLC" and "Expansion Pack". no, it's not perfect. it doesn't need to be. DLC has shown itself to be a mostly negative thing with the value proposition horribly skewed towards the content-pusher, while expansion packs have had a tendency to show themselves to be worthy articles unto their own, sometimes. a lot of this is due to the stuff that wishbone mentioned in his post.
I do like the way you have confirmed 100% what Vestin said - 'When I don't like it, it's a DLC.'

avatar
Johnathanamz: You keep saying it is called a DownLoadable Content (DLC) but it's not.

For me to distinguish what a expansion pack is or what DLC is a expansion pack gives 10 hours or 10+ hours of gameplay to the main video game itself.
So quantity over quality, eh? One of the most popular expansion packs in history, Half-Life: Opposing Force, was roughly 7 hours long. Just say 'when an expansion pack adds meaningful content, it's an expansion pack' or something for crying out loud, these numbers are ridiculous, albeit slightly less ridiculous than the stuff you have snatched off that article which excluded almost all expansion packs released in gaming history. Just... Expansion packs are not long most of the time, they never were. They never even added all that much content. Nowadays, for the price of a single expansion, you can buy just as much content in the form of DLC.
Post edited July 05, 2014 by Fenixp
avatar
johnnygoging: yes, there is a distinction between "DLC" and "Expansion Pack". no, it's not perfect. it doesn't need to be. DLC has shown itself to be a mostly negative thing with the value proposition horribly skewed towards the content-pusher, while expansion packs have had a tendency to show themselves to be worthy articles unto their own, sometimes. a lot of this is due to the stuff that wishbone mentioned in his post.
avatar
Fenixp: I do like the way you have confirmed 100% what Vestin said - 'When I don't like it, it's a DLC.'

avatar
Johnathanamz: You keep saying it is called a DownLoadable Content (DLC) but it's not.

For me to distinguish what a expansion pack is or what DLC is a expansion pack gives 10 hours or 10+ hours of gameplay to the main video game itself.
avatar
Fenixp: So quantity over quality, eh? One of the most popular expansion packs in history, Half-Life: Opposing Force, was roughly 7 hours long. Just say 'when an expansion pack adds meaningful content, it's an expansion pack' or something for crying out loud, these numbers are ridiculous, albeit slightly less ridiculous than the stuff you have snatched off that article which excluded almost all expansion packs released in gaming history. Just... Expansion packs are not long most of the time, they never were. They never even added all that much content. Nowadays, for the price of a single expansion, you can buy just as much content in the form of DLC.
I have been explaining this for a long time but it seems some people don't understand what I was explaining.

But I will never call expansion packs DLC's. Deal with it.
Post edited July 05, 2014 by Johnathanamz
avatar
Fenixp: So quantity over quality, eh? One of the most popular expansion packs in history, Half-Life: Opposing Force, was roughly 7 hours long. Just say 'when an expansion pack adds meaningful content, it's an expansion pack' or something for crying out loud, these numbers are ridiculous.
Personally I think the important part that folks sometimes miss in such discussions is the underlying thing that is important to the individual and not the precise terminology (which is often subjective and ambiguous or it wouldn't be so heavily debated in the first place ;oP ) being used such as "DLC" or "Expansion Pack" per se.

For example, something available for purchase for a game which is separate content available for the game whether it is digitally downloaded or on some other form of media, which is something like a new pair of shoes to make my in-game character look unique or cool or whatever or even something simple and small like that which has some small amount of functionality to it such as a new handgun and the realistic simulated ballistics etc. for the particular model of weapon - do not appeal to me personally. Whether they're individually purchased in game or in a bubble pack at Walmart, whether someone calls it DLC or Expansion Pack, or Addon Content, or Potato Banana souflee makes no difference to me... ;)

I wont buy stuff like that because it doesn't appeal to me in any way, and it isn't because someone labels it as DLC or some other term. I just don't want a new pair of reebok's for Lara Croft in Tombraider even for free let alone for real money. :)

I am generally perfectly happy with the type of extra content that was known fairly unambiguously as "an expansion pack" circa 1999 though whether it was standalone or required a base game to use it. If companies put out something similar in nature to that for modern games then I'm potentially interested in it. They can call it DLC, Expansion Pack, Super Gorga Mega Data Addition Extreme, or $makeup_new_buzzaword and I don't mind much at all.

Just so long as the new Postal 2 enhancements patch gets released here on GOG soon. :) Oh, and the new expansion pack/DLC/whatevertheycallit that is coming later this year also. :)
avatar
HijacK: Nobody said you can't argue. Just don't blame others when you look funny for arguing "to fuck" doesn't mean to engage in sexual intercourse.
And I will tell you once again, because apparently your reading skill is either low or you didn't bother to read what I said. Expansion pack and add-on are related to the size. DLC is related to how is distributed. It's available on Steam? Yes, then it's a fucking DLC. It's available from a disc? Then it's fucking extra content that comes from a disc. Whether it is an expansion pack or add-on, it does not matter, as that has no fucking relevance to the way it is distributed.

How is exactly is the method of distribution related to the size? And for crying out loud, Halo had that exact map pack you are talking about in a physical form too. Yes, a fucking disc that added the same thing as the downloadable thing. Woot? Halo had physical discs with map packs? Yes, yes it had, and no, in that case, they were just map packs, not DLC, because you were not downloading them.
avatar
Johnathanamz: When did I blame other people? I never blamed other people at all.

All I said even if you purchase a expansion pack digitally from the internet from gog.com, Steam or some other website it is still called a expansion pack not a DownLoadable Content (DLC).

You keep saying it is called a DownLoadable Content (DLC) but it's not.

For me to distinguish what a expansion pack is or what DLC is a expansion pack gives 10 hours or 10+ hours of gameplay to the main video game itself. Where as DLC do not they only give 1 new gun skin or 10 new quests. It's easier for me to call a expansion pack a expansion pack for the content it gives to the main video game itself and a DLC a DLC for what it gives the main video game itself. End of story.
I'm sorry, but what? Are you even remotely intelligent? Are you actually arguing Borderlands's disc add-ons are DLC and that downloadable expansion packs are not downloadable CONTENT? Holy shit! I think we just reached a new record of nonsense on GOG!
And how about you bring me some facts as to how a downloadable expansion is not DLC? I brought you the meaning of the words in their pure form. What do you have besides a fanatically incorrect opinion?
Post edited July 05, 2014 by HijacK
avatar
Wishbone: No, I mean specifically in relation to extra content for existing games.
Let me add a few more thoughts though.
1) You still have retailers taking a cut. Usually 30%. Unless you mean setting up a store for your games, which means being both a publisher and a distributor.
2) You also have less time without reviews. In the 90s-00s the reviews were in magazines, so you would usually get the reviews a month or two after the release. Today you get the reviews in a couple of days (at most).

But yes, internet did make it easier to distribute your releases. And once paying online became easier as well, paid stuff was released online.
avatar
Johnathanamz: When did I blame other people? I never blamed other people at all.

All I said even if you purchase a expansion pack digitally from the internet from gog.com, Steam or some other website it is still called a expansion pack not a DownLoadable Content (DLC).

You keep saying it is called a DownLoadable Content (DLC) but it's not.

For me to distinguish what a expansion pack is or what DLC is a expansion pack gives 10 hours or 10+ hours of gameplay to the main video game itself. Where as DLC do not they only give 1 new gun skin or 10 new quests. It's easier for me to call a expansion pack a expansion pack for the content it gives to the main video game itself and a DLC a DLC for what it gives the main video game itself. End of story.
avatar
HijacK: I'm sorry, but what? Are you even remotely intelligent? Are you actually arguing Borderlands's disc add-ons are DLC and that downloadable expansion packs are not downloadable CONTENT? Holy shit! I think we just reached a new record of nonsense on GOG!
And how about you bring me some facts as to how a downloadable expansion is not DLC? I brought you the meaning of the words in their pure form. What do you have besides a fanatically incorrect opinion?
They are DownLoadable Content but because you download them from the internet. But they are expansion packs. They expand the main video game itself.

Add-on or DLC that ad 1 new gun skin, 10 new quests or 10 new vehicles don't expand the main video game itself like the expansion pack does. Do you know the difference between expansion and just adding small content to the main video game itself?

Borderlands disc add-ons are DLC's. Not expansion packs. They don't expand the main video game itself in a huge way like expansion packs do.
avatar
Tarm: You do know babies wake up and scream a lot? ;)
avatar
skeletonbow: Ah yes, here we go... :)
That's......I have no words. :S
avatar
skeletonbow: Super Gorga Mega Data Addition Extreme
They might as well call it like that forever seeing as some people are either too dumb for English, or too dumb period.
avatar
Johnathanamz: The Unreal Tournament bonus packs were released for free you know. At least I don't remember paying for them only getting them added for free I patches. As I explained before I want DLC's added for free in patches and expansion packs sold only.
The were free. Back in 1999-2000. Weighing about 50MBs, in a time with little broadband access, and no way of paying online. Or you could buy the GoTY version of the game, which included them.