StingingVelvet: It installs SecuROM from the disc, you can't change that, but as long as you patch it before you launch the game then it never uses the SecuROM files or activates.

StingingVelvet: They patched the DRM out of Farcry 2, Dawn of Discovery and other games after saying they would at release. That is a pretty good reason to be optimistic at least if you ask me.
EA said they would patch out the SecuROM from their titles after they were no longer recent releases but they have not done so once to my knowledge.
Double Agent is one of the worst PC ports ever but I don't know what that has to do with patching out DRM, which they have done repeatedly.
As for DLC, they released it for Farcry 2 and Assassin's Creed 2 comes with all the DLC so... I don't know what you mean.

Gundato: What we mean is: They don't really have all that good of a record of caring about their customers post-release these days. Or, at least, their PC customers.
And they removed the activations from FC2 retail and Steam, but they forced Impulse (which actually had no Securom, not just disabled Securom) to use Tages if they wanted the DLC. And I am pretty sure their activations are still enabled. Plus, the free Intel-sponsored DLC is still very difficult to install for anything but retail.
So yeah, great record...

StingingVelvet: Well... then don't buy it on Impulse? That seems a pretty weak arguement. The point of the matter is they had no obligation to remove the activation from retail and they did.

Red_Avatar: PC gaming is still a lucrative business. The problem is, that publishers are both too lazy and too ignorant to realise how to properly exploit it.
What they shouldn't do:
...
What they should do:
- support the game until it's properly patched - whoops, again, rarely done

uruk: Dlc can be ok if it worth it. Its the day one dlc that i hate.Lets take dragon age.
The Digital Deluxe Version . You got both the stone prisoner and wardens keep.
The box collector's edition?only the stone prisoner.
I still can't see why the collector's edition didn't get a code for wardens keep in the box.

Coelocanth: Because the retail CE got the map and the tin case. The free Warden's Keep for the digital version was to compensate for not getting those things.

Red_Avatar: The facts are this: GOOD GAMES SELL. Ubisoft needs to get that through their thick skull. Fallout 3 sold well and barely had any protection. A cracked Dragon Age Origins was available before the retail version was and yet sold several million. Seriously, they just need to accept that if their game is crap, a typical console game, and filled with DRM, it won't sell.

StingingVelvet: This isn't rocket science. No, they did not remove Steam DRM, because that is not their call and not a concern for Steam buyers obviously. They removed THEIR DRM from Farcry 2 and Dawn of Discovery after a year or so which they said they would do early on, that is called setting a precedent. That makes their statement about AC2 more believable and trustworthy to me, end of story.
Their DLC, porting efforts and other such things have zippo zero to do with that, sorry. I get your whole overall company strategy in the debat, but it honestly has nothing to do with what I said, which was "company A says they will do this, company A has done that exact thing before, therefore I believe company A when they say it." The end.
As for Valve, they have said they will remove Steam DRM if they go out of business on their forums... certain employees have... and supposedly if you email support and ask they will repeat that statement. Whether they will actually do this, and whether it counts for anything more than Valve's own games, is of course debateable.
And just as an overall comment I am sure will get the die-hards all wound up, the reason Ubisoft pays less attention to the PC with DLC and such is because the PC is by far the lowest selling platform for these games. Is this because of general lack of interest in the PC or because of piracy? Probably both to some extent... and if you believe piracy is a factor in that then a good anti-piracy method that works and is not too annoying for customers is in our best interest because it will curb piracy and result in more effort toward the PC platform, correct?
The whole point of AC2 is to see if them can still make money on the PC. $60, DRM they hope will curb piracy for a while... then see what their profit margin is. Support it or not, but personally I want more PC support in the future and have my AC2 preorder in.

kevlarcardhouse: The only real difference is that for the most part console games sell much better,

Gersen: I love when people always use this argument, because it is without a doubt the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
- If your name isn't Blizzard, the PC market isn't lucrative at all. There's a reason more and more developers are either putting out crappy ports, or skipping the PC version completely. Sales are terrible. That's also the reason why more and more PC games are either subscription-based MMOs or flash games that are free of microtransactions - because those are the only ones where you can make money because they can't be pirated. If you're going to rail against games because of DRM, then I hope you like playing only old games and Hello Kitty MMOs because that's what's coming next.
- For the record, Dragon Age and Fallout 3 both sold "several million" on consoles, but not nearly as many on PCs, as divulged above. The only game other than Sims 3 or WOW to get close to the million mark last year was Modern Warfare 2, which throws your complete argument of "what they shouldn't do" out the window.
- Some good games sell and some bad games sell, and some good games are flops and some bad games are flops. The only real difference is that for the most part console games sell much better, and all PC games would do better if there wasn't so much piracy.
- Furthermore, I always find it really conceited to make that argument to begin with. Everyone has different tastes in games, just like they do with movies and books and television shows. You have to be really full of yourself to think that every game you don't like is "crappy" and every one you do is quantifiably "good."