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Bron: Is steam evil? Of course not.

Steam is EVIL
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Bron: Is steam evil? Of course not. They have a perfect right to offer games via their service and I think they are trying to do it right.

Well if they're trying, they're certainly not doing very well at it, at least in Europe. Already in the UK, the prices they ask for games are sometimes twice as high, or even higher, than those in retail (perfectly sensible - asking more money for less product). Then look at mainland Europe and it gets even worse because of their 1$=1€ "calculation".
When I buy new full-price games, I usually order them from Amazon UK. In a retail store, I would pay almost double the price. On Steam it would be pretty near three times as much as I pay on Amazon.
Apart from that, services like Steam would have to either junk the DRM, or orient their prices according to game rental, not retail sales, considering your whole expensive Steam game collection goes kapoof once someone pulls a plug somewhere in the world, or some company goes bankrupt. Kind of like Gametap: a flatrate price (I think its $10/month) for unlimited access to 1000+ games. It's nothing for me, as I like to own the games I play, and play even if my Internet connection or some far-off server is down. But it's certainly a fair price for what it is.
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Bron: (...) GOG treats me fairly and I will treat GOG the same. Win/Win.

Exactly. If you think you can fight or prevent piracy, then you're just being stupid. I know many publishers know this but still have to act stupid (i.e. implement DRM) because their shareholders are stupid and demand it. But the fact remains that in the digital world, piracy is a fact, and there is only one way of getting people to pay for your product: treating them with respect and giving them their money's worth in return. This is exactly what GOG is all about. The problem is that services like Steam actually ask money for a version of the game that is quality-wise far inferior to the pirated one. That's not a punchy sales argument.
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Bron: Is steam evil? Of course not. They have a perfect right to offer games via their service and I think they are trying to do it right.
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Anamon: Well if they're trying, they're certainly not doing very well at it, at least in Europe. Already in the UK, the prices they ask for games are sometimes twice as high, or even higher, than those in retail (perfectly sensible - asking more money for less product). Then look at mainland Europe and it gets even worse because of their 1$=1€ "calculation".

Yes an no.
You have to remember one thing about the system that Vavle have for STEAM. They let the publishers/devs set the price, so it is not really Vavle or STEAM that should be looked at. There are no VALVE games that differ in price really, and the games that are at the retail price are, ATM, manly THQ and 2K Games that are doing it. And fo be fair, we here in Australia are getting ripped of the most. BIG TIME.
A good example of this is BioShock 2
Bioshock 2
AUS: 80 USD
US: 50 USD
UK: 40 GBP
Now, I am not a fan my self of the Bioshock games, but if I wanted to get it, I could get it for 40AUD instead of 80USD which, at this point, is probably close to 90AUSD.
The thing is this. Consumers control the price. If we stopped buying it at the price we are given, and wait till it drops, or find it at a cheaper price, and get it that way, then the publishers will start dropping the price. it is that simple.
Also on the subject of STEAM, for thos that have it on here, I have a website that I am trying to get going. The idea is simple. Help people find games on STEAM cheaper.
http://steampricecomparison.page.tl/Home.htm
Anyway, to finish off, I would also like to point to some other STEAM like programs. One in particular. Impulse. I think Stardock has done a dam good thing. The only DRM they have is you have to register the game with them if you want your game patched. To me, that is pretty good, as it means the pirates can not update the game, and there for, can not play on-line.
There is also Deep Silvers idea of have DRM on it at the start, but get ride of it after a year or so.
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Jagji56: Also on the subject of STEAM, for thos that have it on here, I have a website that I am trying to get going. The idea is simple. Help people find games on STEAM cheaper.
http://steampricecomparison.page.tl/Home.htm

http://didimatic.com/dd/en/wish/
Someone beat you too it. Though they don't list AUD though.
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Jagji56: Also on the subject of STEAM, for thos that have it on here, I have a website that I am trying to get going. The idea is simple. Help people find games on STEAM cheaper.
http://steampricecomparison.page.tl/Home.htm
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Delixe: http://didimatic.com/dd/en/wish/
Someone beat you too it. Though they don't list AUD though.

It's not the same as what I am doing tho. My site is only going to have games that have a price difference between the different regions of the STEAM store, showing everyone who ripped off we are all getting compared to the US STEAM store...
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Jagji56: It's not the same as what I am doing tho. My site is only going to have games that have a price difference between the different regions of the STEAM store, showing everyone who ripped off we are all getting compared to the US STEAM store...

Ah naming and shaming. I endorse this highly.
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Jagji56: It's not the same as what I am doing tho. My site is only going to have games that have a price difference between the different regions of the STEAM store, showing everyone who ripped off we are all getting compared to the US STEAM store...
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Delixe: Ah naming and shaming. I endorse this highly.

Yep, pretty much. Plus, I am hoping to set up a network of sorts so people can ask someone in the US to gift them a game due to it being cheaper there, and then you pay them back or something. Thats what the Steam Group is for. lol.
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Jagji56: Yep, pretty much. Plus, I am hoping to set up a network of sorts so people can ask someone in the US to gift them a game due to it being cheaper there, and then you pay them back or something. Thats what the Steam Group is for. lol.

Be careful with that. Valve have banned accounts for people having too many games gifted to them. Valve do not seem to grasp the concept of a free market and they like to do questionable things while pointing to their EULA.
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Jagji56: Also on the subject of STEAM, for thos that have it on here, I have a website that I am trying to get going. The idea is simple. Help people find games on STEAM cheaper.
http://steampricecomparison.page.tl/Home.htm

May I point out something that you might want to change?
1. ALL prices are shown is USD Regardless of store.
Bioshock 2
AUS: 80 USD
US: 50 USD
UK: 40 GBP

So... Do you show the wrong price or the wrong currency?
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Jagji56: Yep, pretty much. Plus, I am hoping to set up a network of sorts so people can ask someone in the US to gift them a game due to it being cheaper there, and then you pay them back or something. Thats what the Steam Group is for. lol.
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Delixe: Be careful with that. Valve have banned accounts for people having too many games gifted to them. Valve do not seem to grasp the concept of a free market and they like to do questionable things while pointing to their EULA.

It's funny. You would think that these corporations would "get" the fact that there is such a thing as the internet and realize that screwing people on currency exchange is not the best way to do business. Maybe it's just me.
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Jagji56: Also on the subject of STEAM, for thos that have it on here, I have a website that I am trying to get going. The idea is simple. Help people find games on STEAM cheaper.
http://steampricecomparison.page.tl/Home.htm

May I point out something that you might want to change?
1. ALL prices are shown is USD Regardless of store.
Bioshock 2
AUS: 80 USD
US: 50 USD
UK: 40 GBP
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Wishbone: So... Do you show the wrong price or the wrong currency?

The site needs to be updated a bit, I know. That was before I stated puting in UK pricing.
The Aus STEAM store uses USD, which is why it is in USD, just to clear that up.
EDIT: Fixed it up, all good now. XD
Post edited March 18, 2010 by Jagji56
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Jagji56: Also on the subject of STEAM, for thos that have it on here, I have a website that I am trying to get going. The idea is simple. Help people find games on STEAM cheaper.
http://steampricecomparison.page.tl/Home.htm
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Delixe: http://didimatic.com/dd/en/wish/
Someone beat you too it. Though they don't list AUD though.

Not to mention that that area of the site is currently not updated. It's being recoded from scratch to take advantage of automatic updates. It's taking longer than it should though due to a few problems that appeared. Namely, the fact that Valve and GamersGate often change game titles and Valve generally change product ids too. This causes problems with trying to maintain links to a wishlist when the product suddenly ceases to exist =/. I'm yet to find a solution I am happy with.
When I do, I will be adding a lot more pricing information for that area of the site, but even then, there can never be too many sites showing the world how publishers and distributors like to take advantage of certain regions =) It helps spread the word at least.
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bansama: Not to mention that that area of the site is currently not updated. It's being recoded from scratch to take advantage of automatic updates. It's taking longer than it should though due to a few problems that appeared. Namely, the fact that Valve and GamersGate often change game titles and Valve generally change product ids too. This causes problems with trying to maintain links to a wishlist when the product suddenly ceases to exist =/. I'm yet to find a solution I am happy with.

Maybe a daily script to search for the game title and return the ID of the first match? Even if they change titles it doesn't seem likely that the name change would be so significant that the game wouldn't come up as the first search result.
For example The Witcher would likely return The Witcher Enhanced Edition as result 1
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Wishbone: So... Do you show the wrong price or the wrong currency?
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Jagji56: The Aus STEAM store uses USD, which is why it is in USD, just to clear that up.

Yeah it used to be us being savagely raped financially until the american economy got to the point where their dollar was in danger of being overtaken by the 'shiny bead and mirror'. For a while there, our dollar was actually BETTER than theirs (aside from just being way prettier) and we had a great run going where you could buy games at a good price but then modern warfare 2 came out at us$90 and suddenly everyone seems to be charging way more than us$60 and getting away with it...
Post edited March 19, 2010 by Aliasalpha
I went and preordered Splinter Cell: Conviction.
OKAY OKAY, I'M SORRY! And before you torch my house and put land mines outside my school I'd just like to say this. I saw the bus ads and since I was going to buy a couple of games anyway I thought I might as well preorder that. No money down (okay fine, fifty bucks) and I got a neat in-game shotgun AND a fancy carabiner.
And you know what? No regrets. Screw the DRM, I need this game.
Personally, I would think the people that bought the game, who understood the concept of the DRM got what they paid for; since everything in life breaks.
I will say it again, until gamers STOP buying games with DRM and politely tell the company why; it will not be more of the same, but more of what is worse for the user as time goes by.
Honestly, does anyone think Ubi will keep the servers running when no more revenue is coming in from the game, and it is costing them money to keep the servers running as well as personnel to monitor them?