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kalirion: Torchlight is a popcorn game - fun for a while, then starts getting really repetitive.

Diablo games are far better IMO, though the graphics have aged quite a lot.

At this point I'd recommend Titan Quest Gold.
TBH, it always amazes me that people seem to think that the Diablo games are really that good. At the time they seemed great, but that was largely before all those post Diablo II games came out and did virtually everything better. I've played most of the way through D2 and it's still fun, but it's not really that great of a game.

Blizzard really screwed the hootch when they opted to wait so long to release the follow to D2. Same really applies to Star Craft, so many games in that genre and they didn't really bother competing with anything.
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Fenixp: Am I really the only person ever that strongly disliked Titan Quest and found it incredibly boring?
Possibly. What's your A-RPG of choice?
Okay, I downloaded the Titan Quest Demo to see if I liked it, and it says it "Cant initialize graphics engine" or something like it. Does it run on Windows 7, or is the full game better optimized?
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TCMU2009: Okay, I downloaded the Titan Quest Demo to see if I liked it, and it says it "Cant initialize graphics engine" or something like it. Does it run on Windows 7, or is the full game better optimized?
Might be something to ask in the Steam forums for the game. I haven't tried it on W7 myself...
For simgle player, get TL. It's incredibly intuitive and elegantly designed. For overall value and multiplayer, get DII. It's legendary for a reason, it's the prime congenitor of the whole genre. It also features more chracter classes and endless loot. One more point about TL, the random level generator is more advanced and forms more cohesive dungeons. For a loot based gamr, while not a dungeon crawl per ce Borderlands is worth a look.
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Fenixp: Am I really the only person ever that strongly disliked Titan Quest and found it incredibly boring?
Nope! I hate it too.
It's got an interesting start but by the third act if you haven't built your character along very specific guidelines you're just not dealing out enough damage to kill the enemies.

That and the fact that they didn't even bother to do basic research on the Myths they were weaving into their world, makes it a vote to skip from me. (Atlas holds up the Sky, not the world you silly developers)
Post edited January 28, 2012 by Matchstickman
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Matchstickman: by the third act if you haven't built your character along very specific guidelines you're just not dealing out enough damage to kill the enemies.
Funny, as a challenge I decided to see how far I could get without spending any attribute or skill points (well, ok, I spend 2 attribute points before I made that decision).

Got all the way to the 3rd act boss :)
Post edited January 28, 2012 by kalirion
Right TCMU2009, thanks for asking.

Basically, there's only one answer - Diablo II.
Diablo II is easily the best hack and slash ever made. The key about Diablo II is depth and replayability, this game literally will not stop. You can spend a decade fine-tuning your character (unless you're ridiculously rich). It is a game that doesn't make you feel bad about pouring hours upon hours into it. The underlying mechanics under D2 are beautiful, the game is extremely well balanced. You will start off as a scrub, struggling in the mid and late game. Once you do the mechanics, study your character, allocate your stats and skills correctly, get the correct gear, you will blaze through Hell difficulty in a full game cutting through minions like a hot knife through butter.
I've been playing this game since release and I believe the last character that I made was in summer 2008. Would probably make another one if I had more time. Also, no matter what people say - Blizzard is awesome. They released a new patch for the game a couple of years ago. Which developers still look after a 12y old game? Oh and the community is still very strong in terms of forums, fan content and active players.
One word of warning - American players are giant douchebags, though I suppose this applies to Americans in every online MP game so you might be used to it. If latency weren't an issue, I'd recommend you to play on European servers. I don't recommend playing on Asian servers, but that's for a different reason.

I played Titan's Quest for about 5-6h and while it's not a bad game, I'd still easily recommend D2 over it. Titan's Quest simply didn't feel very atmospheric to me and the skill system felt a little boring. Meh, whatever floats your boat I suppose.

Torchlight is a great game. I played through it once and had a thoroughly good time. As I started a second character, I decided it wasn't worth it. It simply doesn't have much replayability in my opinion.
Also, the issue is the endgame. Monsters respawn every time you create a new "game room" in Diablo II (your progress and character is saved, but the world is "repopulated"), which makes grinding a very easy task. On the other hand, Torchlight generates an endless dungeon with more and more levels. This means that the difficulty is more balanced since it increases at a steady rate, but boss grinding is impossible. Also, your gear will go out of date sooner. Oh and D2's difficulty isn't stagnant, you can increased / decrease it.

Diablo I suffers from the aforementioned issue. Whenever you want the world to be repopulated you effectively have to start a new game (your character is saved but progress isn't).

Honourable mention to Darkstone. That game was great back in the day, but had not aged well at all when I tried it last.

Oh and Sacred is overrated, no matter what people say. If D2's graphic style and atmosphere are not your cup of tea, maybe give it a go. But mechanically, the game feels very clumsy.
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FraterPerdurabo: Right TCMU2009, thanks for asking.

Basically, there's only one answer - Diablo II.
Diablo II is easily the best hack and slash ever made. The key about Diablo II is depth and replayability, this game literally will not stop. You can spend a decade fine-tuning your character (unless you're ridiculously rich). It is a game that doesn't make you feel bad about pouring hours upon hours into it. The underlying mechanics under D2 are beautiful, the game is extremely well balanced. You will start off as a scrub, struggling in the mid and late game. Once you do the mechanics, study your character, allocate your stats and skills correctly, get the correct gear, you will blaze through Hell difficulty in a full game cutting through minions like a hot knife through butter.
I've been playing this game since release and I believe the last character that I made was in summer 2008. Would probably make another one if I had more time. Also, no matter what people say - Blizzard is awesome. They released a new patch for the game a couple of years ago. Which developers still look after a 12y old game? Oh and the community is still very strong in terms of forums, fan content and active players.
One word of warning - American players are giant douchebags, though I suppose this applies to Americans in every online MP game so you might be used to it. If latency weren't an issue, I'd recommend you to play on European servers. I don't recommend playing on Asian servers, but that's for a different reason.

I played Titan's Quest for about 5-6h and while it's not a bad game, I'd still easily recommend D2 over it. Titan's Quest simply didn't feel very atmospheric to me and the skill system felt a little boring. Meh, whatever floats your boat I suppose.

Torchlight is a great game. I played through it once and had a thoroughly good time. As I started a second character, I decided it wasn't worth it. It simply doesn't have much replayability in my opinion.
Also, the issue is the endgame. Monsters respawn every time you create a new "game room" in Diablo II (your progress and character is saved, but the world is "repopulated"), which makes grinding a very easy task. On the other hand, Torchlight generates an endless dungeon with more and more levels. This means that the difficulty is more balanced since it increases at a steady rate, but boss grinding is impossible. Also, your gear will go out of date sooner. Oh and D2's difficulty isn't stagnant, you can increased / decrease it.

Diablo I suffers from the aforementioned issue. Whenever you want the world to be repopulated you effectively have to start a new game (your character is saved but progress isn't).

Honourable mention to Darkstone. That game was great back in the day, but had not aged well at all when I tried it last.

Oh and Sacred is overrated, no matter what people say. If D2's graphic style and atmosphere are not your cup of tea, maybe give it a go. But mechanically, the game feels very clumsy.
Ugh, I was convinced on Titan Quest, but now I don't know. To get either Diablo 2 or TQ with the expansions would be $20 each I think, so I'll have to decide between one or the other. When you say the skills in TQ aren't as good as Diablo, do you mean the various special attacks/moves/spells you use with a cooldown timer?
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TCMU2009: Ugh, I was convinced on Titan Quest, but now I don't know. To get either Diablo 2 or TQ with the expansions would be $20 each I think, so I'll have to decide between one or the other. When you say the skills in TQ aren't as good as Diablo, do you mean the various special attacks/moves/spells you use with a cooldown timer?
Granted I only played one class in TQ, but I did quite bit research into it. I felt that the classes were a bit more bland, but the skill trees were definitely more forgiving.

Diablo II requires very specific character planning to get you through the entire game BUT the latest patch included the ability to redistribute your stats and skills up to a maximum of three times.

Also, D2 has amazing pvp. Check out for example this BvC (Barbarian vs Caster, a type of build):

vs a Hammerdin (Hammer Paladin):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duQ1BvTUJSs

vs a Boner (Bone Necomancer):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhf88o3YEdQ
EDIT:

Diablo and Diablo 2 did not age well, D2 only has a max resolution of 800 x 600. However, they are genre-defining examples of arpg's.

Titan Quest is basically Diablo 2 in a mythological setting but with better graphics and widescreen support. It's worth the price tag, even if you play through it once. The key difference is the maps in TQ are "static" IE stay the same, in Diablo 2 they are randomized.
Post edited January 29, 2012 by CymTyr
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TCMU2009: Ugh, I was convinced on Titan Quest, but now I don't know. To get either Diablo 2 or TQ with the expansions would be $20 each I think, so I'll have to decide between one or the other. When you say the skills in TQ aren't as good as Diablo, do you mean the various special attacks/moves/spells you use with a cooldown timer?
I really have to disagree with FraterPerdurabo about the skills in TQ being boring- with 9 skill trees which can then be mixed and matched for a total of 45 different classes, along with multiple ways to play each class, the skill system is just as interesting and involved as that for Diablo 2 (and I say this having spent hundreds of hours playing D2 and easily over a hundred playing TQ). Another thing to consider, that FraterPerdurabo's post reminded me of, is that something which should weigh heavily in your decision is whether you're looking for more of a single-player or a multi-player experience. While both games offer both types of play, D2 is more suited for multiplayer while TQ is more suited for single-player. A big way this comes through is equipment and drop rates- in D2 getting top equipment pretty much requires trading with other players, as the drop rates are such that outfitting even a single character with top gear would require an absolutely insane amount of grinding. The drop rates in TQ, on the other hand, are for the most part set so that you'll come across a fairly good selection of the available gear just by playing the game normally.

Ultimately, if you're looking to play with other people then D2 would probably be the better choice, while if you're looking more for a single-player experience I think TQ would give you the more enjoyable experience.
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DarrkPhoenix: I really have to disagree with FraterPerdurabo about the skills in TQ being boring- with 9 skill trees which can then be mixed and matched for a total of 45 different classes, along with multiple ways to play each class, the skill system is just as interesting and involved as that for Diablo 2 (and I say this having spent hundreds of hours playing D2 and easily over a hundred playing TQ). Another thing to consider, that FraterPerdurabo's post reminded me of, is that something which should weigh heavily in your decision is whether you're looking for more of a single-player or a multi-player experience. While both games offer both types of play, D2 is more suited for multiplayer while TQ is more suited for single-player. A big way this comes through is equipment and drop rates- in D2 getting top equipment pretty much requires trading with other players, as the drop rates are such that outfitting even a single character with top gear would require an absolutely insane amount of grinding. The drop rates in TQ, on the other hand, are for the most part set so that you'll come across a fairly good selection of the available gear just by playing the game normally.

Ultimately, if you're looking to play with other people then D2 would probably be the better choice, while if you're looking more for a single-player experience I think TQ would give you the more enjoyable experience.
Hey you're probably right about the skills in TQ. Like I said, I really didn't play that game much (3 days vs 8 years for D2).
Diablo II is entirely playable in SP but it's quite a different game from the MP experience and requires a fair amount of knowledge of the game. For example, I made a lvl 92 Amazon entirely in SP and a lvl 90 Sorc. Both in 1.10 (in which leveling was made substantially slower than in 1.09).

Personally, I play D2 in what I effectively call a single player multi player experience. I play on battle.net, chiefly in private games by myself or with my friends, yet I still have the opportunity to go trading or dueling or into Baalruns, etc.
There's one drawback about MP, namely as opposed to SP you cannot use the /players x command, so you simply have to find full games to do your thing. However, at a lower level it is entirely irrelevant and at a high level you will learn how to do it efficiently.


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CymTyr: Diablo and Diablo 2 did not age well, D2 only has a max resolution of 800 x 600.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lgjR-FJ9T8
Personally I don't use it, I don't mind the 'low' resolution.
Forget all the games that were mentioned before.

DIVINE DIVINITY!

Now that is the most amazing "Diablo clone" ever. It takes the diablo mechanics, makes them very challenging then adds an interesting story and character/world interaction.

Divine divinity is an action RPG that will keep throwing new things at you, and you'll never get bored till you've finished.
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FraterPerdurabo: Right TCMU2009, thanks for asking.

Basically, there's only one answer - Diablo II.
Diablo II is easily the best hack and slash ever made. The key about Diablo II is depth and replayability, this game literally will not stop. You can spend a decade fine-tuning your character (unless you're ridiculously rich). It is a game that doesn't make you feel bad about pouring hours upon hours into it. The underlying mechanics under D2 are beautiful, the game is extremely well balanced. You will start off as a scrub, struggling in the mid and late game. Once you do the mechanics, study your character, allocate your stats and skills correctly, get the correct gear, you will blaze through Hell difficulty in a full game cutting through minions like a hot knife through butter.
I've been playing this game since release and I believe the last character that I made was in summer 2008. Would probably make another one if I had more time. Also, no matter what people say - Blizzard is awesome. They released a new patch for the game a couple of years ago. Which developers still look after a 12y old game? Oh and the community is still very strong in terms of forums, fan content and active players.
Diablo 2 has very little replay value to it, except for the anal retentive types that are willing to spend many hours optimizing.

Most folks will play through once, maybe once per class and probably never again. It's got a weak story, a plot that does very little other than justify the jumps between acts. Very little in the way of optional quests or variety in that matter.

It might be better in multiplayer, but then again you have to deal with all sorts of antisocial behavior and cheating.

The game was important at the time, but really it hasn't aged well and there are definitely plenty of games out there that do it better.

As for Blizzard, they're a bunch of self absorbed dicks that seem more interested in milking franchises than coming up with anything compelling. Diablo 3, from what I've seen, really is just a reskinning of WoW with Diablo lore. And SC2, well, that might have been compelling had it come out seven or eight years earlier, but by launch it was pretty clear that it was just an attempt at cashing in on the previous game rather than a serious attempt at creating a good game. And the mechanics weren't obviously different from the original game other than the rebalancing and leaving out the other races.
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PMIK: Forget all the games that were mentioned before.

DIVINE DIVINITY!

Now that is the most amazing "Diablo clone" ever. It takes the diablo mechanics, makes them very challenging then adds an interesting story and character/world interaction.

Divine divinity is an action RPG that will keep throwing new things at you, and you'll never get bored till you've finished.
I've played that a bit and it's pretty good. I've been playing Sacred Gold a bit lately and it's also pretty good. I also really like Lionheart: Legacy in that general genre.

They all seem to be quite a bit less superficial than Diablo or Torchlight for that matter.
Post edited January 29, 2012 by hedwards