Hahahaha, you have to be kidding me. Can you read? Please, READ what i just said. I said SALES. You can't SELL social games, F2P, MMOs and MOBAs. These are the "games as a service" crap, which you might enjoy. I said game SALES exactly because i was referring to the traditional market. Of course PC gaming is bigger if you count social facebook games, MMOs, F2P, MOBAs. F2P is only starting to take off on consoles now.

So, yeah, casual games are a huge thing and generate a lot of money. Tell us something we didn't know.

Ohhhhhhhhhh, yeah the majority of the ports aren't so crappy anymore. Oh, right. Then why the biggest releases of the past months are shitty ports? Why does COD Ghosts suck? Why does Battlefield 4 suck? Why does Assassin's Creed 4 suck? Then why does NFS RIvals suck ? Why does the biggest release of the year so far (Watch Dogs) suck so much on PCs?

And that's from consoles "running on PC hardware".

Oh, sorry, i forgot about Candy Crush, Dota 2, LoL and Hearthstone.

By the way, have you noticed that i purposely used the word "sale" to exclude F2P? I'm not talking about total revenue, i'm talking about sales for traditional games. I'm not talking about casual stuff because i don't give a flying fuck about it. I don't care about the revenue generated by Farmville, Candy Crush or MOBAs. These types of games are not even on consoles to begin with. Consoles are more targeted at hardcore gamers. Casual gamers already have their cellphones and PCs to play these games.

And i'm pretty sure people don't buy consoles to play F2P games. That would be dumb.

Then I´m happy if what happened during 2005-2013 is changing to something a lot better. Stopped caring about consoles on 2013, so I didn´t know this had changed during the last year on PS4 and XboxOne.

As I said, I haven´t owned PS3 or PSP, so I can´t talk about those two systems. I´ve only experienced MS and Nintendo last gen. Sony wasn´t a good option during 2007-2008. When it started to get a lot better around 2009-2010 I was already established on Xbox360 and I didn´t want to buy a third console for playing current games.

I agree that´s why PC games have those workarounds, but that´s an advantage anyway.

I understand if the games you play the most are AAA, you will have more exclusives on consoles, but personally most of the games I played last gen where available on other consoles and/or PC, and none of them can be played on the next gen console.

What I can´t understand is how people say PC ports are weaker. Why? Is it because unstability or because they need a high-end computer? They always have better resolution and they usually can get 60fps. Even if the game struggles on todays computer, it will work better on later computers. On the other side, you won´t be able to play it on later consoles.

I understand many people want to play the newer games the best way possible today. But I personally prefer being able to play the games over the years, and I don´t care if today the game looks worse if tomorrow it will look better. In other words: I prefer playing a game launched today four years later if that means it will be better and I´ll be able to play during a lot more years. I don´t need a game to be the newest or the best looking one to enjoy it. What I need is being able to replay it around the years, without having to collect so many gaming devices.

What I would personally like is that PS4 supported games from PS1, PS2 and PS3 (even PSP or PSP Vita if possible), Xbox One supported games from Xbox and Xbox360, and WiiU supported every game from Nintendo before that. I understand when the game is not compatible because the hardware format. In fact, I don´t mind rebuying the game digitally... If that means I will be able to play it on the next generations. If rebuying the game digitally means it will be incompatible on the next generation and I will have to wait to yet another port and buy it again, I prefer staying out of consoles.

It´s so wrong I can play my PS1 or PS2 games on a PC but not on a PS4... And even looking better than in their original releases. The day consoles start doing that, I will end up joining them again. But backwards compatibility is currently one of the lowest priorities in most next gen consoles.

I have HG2 still on disc, but am waiting for the eventually GOG release to save my time ;)

Anyways, the backwards compatibility can never be 100% -but atm its great and only getting better. Certainly no one can predict the future OS's and such - but PC gaming is too big to just abandon, so i am not worried about that sort of thing.

Well who was it preaching how console gaming is cheaper than PC's?

"Better" is hard word. Like ive said multiple times - consoles can be "better" choice for someone who just wants to buy "box", put in game, sit on sofa and play. Thats it. ...however PC's are quite close to that lvl of streamlining and easy of use - and Steambox with its SteamOS (big picture) will be 1:1 console experience in every possible way except its really PC.

Frankly, next year if this situation continues the same - the only advantage console gaming has over PC gaming is going to be console exclusives. Which wont stay exclusive for too long, as PC market is too big to ignore and porting is easier than before.

Thus - console market is sustainable today, but will it be in couple years?



I believe you commented something about its quality - but its not yet released... Well, ofcourse i dont know if its released on consoles and whether there have been any changes to PC version - but its ultimately moot point.

Glad to have the game available for me, if i eventually want to play it.

I havent bought physical games for long-long time. As i said, the sales, bundles and general competition between internet shops pushes the games price so low, that selling old games isnt really that huge issue. to me. other have different opinions.

However - the situation may be changing, atleast in EU. There is huge debate going on about whether electronic game licences should be tradable or not. It might be Steam and others are forced to implement trading system for games. That would have ever rise new games prices, which i wouldnt really care for. There would be less of those mega sales.

And like i said: Atleast on steam you can already share your game library: https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3784-QLBM-5731


doom DooM DOOOOOOOMM!! Buahahahahahhahaha
/sarcarm off


......
I do atleast try to use proper arguments and reasoning here. Not going all out "pcPWNZALL!!11!11!" or so.

Cant always win. Sorry if you cant see the connection there.

PC's are all about choice. You can choose to go with small budget or you can choose go with sky as limit. There are lots of people in both ends and between.

SteelBatallion cost 200usd: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_Battalion

SteelBatallions control isnt supported by any new products - because it didnt sell enough. It didnt sell enough because console didnt have enough people interested in HC simulators like this with 200usd price tag. If it had sold millions there would be new games for it coming out early.

This didnt happen.

Sigh^2

By this point you should realize that PC has decades of history of expensive peripherals and games that use them. There is big enough audience and interest for them.

This is not the case with consoles and thus we do not see HC simulators and HC controllers on consoles - they do not sell = case Steel Batallion.

The PC gamers who invest fortune on their computers and peripherals are however only fraction of all pc gamers. You simply cant lump all PC gamers into one while group as while some play with 400usd computers someone else plays with 4000usd computer. Both are PC gamers - but very different kind of pc gamers indeed.

If you have alternative view on this, please tell me. I am honestly interested.

You know we are living on 2014? Piracy situation is very different from decade ago and before that.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2014/04/28/as-global-pc-game-revenue-surpasses-consoles-how-long-should-console-makers-keep-fighting/

You can check current numbers from there if you so like.


So drop the damn detail level then or wait for patch, which will undoubtedly come. Its true enough that PC suffers more on quick launches than consoles - the optimization is more difficult. Also AMD - Nvidia war sometimes makes things more difficult as some "Nvidia title" for example doesnt let AMD engineers have the build early enough to tweak the drivers.

Its stupid situation granted - but what is certain that it improves. And if you dont play AAA titles at launch, it isnt problem either.

So while at first PC title may have worse fps (with higher detail level and resolution though) - over the patches PC will more often than not get things running significantly better.

Touche Mr Fact. ;)

Glad to be of help!

I am most certainly not lying by intention at any point.

And i even agree, that for certain sort of gamer consoles are the way to go.

If there are -any- disadvantages in pc gaming, i dont try to ignore them. Certainly say my opinion - but with my own arguements, knowing different people prefere different things.

You and someone else might rage over my opinions, but hey - you never know, someone you might not even ever comment here could read this and think they learned something new. Of your or mine comments.

In this case "usually" is fill term used to say own opinion/gut feeling without any facts to back it up. No worries, i am by no means demanding any facts from you. Ive linked some facts for you, but its not like i can be bothered to investigate and search the whole internet myself.

I actually agree with you, that those jrpgs and typical console -sort action games etc WERE rarity on PC.

Its just that the scene has changed radically in the past few years and the "usually" wont hold much longer.

You dont have to take my word for it, i am clearly aware how suspicious you are of anything i say. And thats just fine too. My epeen will stay the same regardless ;)

No need, man chooses his own destiny.

Makes me wonder if there should be Official "Glorious PC Master Race" thread with Gabe fandom and such :D

Well, PCs are sustainable even with those mediocre game sales compared to consoles.

You mean these games here haven't been released?
http://store.steampowered.com/app/39140/
http://store.steampowered.com/app/39150/

I think i'm from the future then, because i can buy these games right now on Steam.

The funny thing is that the reviews mention exactly what i told you: these versions are inferior to the original PS1 versions. Just check and read them yourself.

Besides, these games have existed for years. They're not HD remakes. FF VII and VIII are exactly the same games released years ago on the PC. If i recall correctly FF VII came out on PCs one year after the original PS1 version. The Steam version is the same old version released 16 years ago.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, you finally realised that there are people with different opinions. Finally. Up until now you were all like "objeticvely X is better than Y", "well, Y has more X than Z". At least we made some progress. Ok, now you're making arguments slightly better than Crosmando.

But seriously, i think that you finally understood my point: that the price argument is completely useless in a PC x consoles debate. Physical games on consoles are cheaper because you can buy a second hand copy, and digital versions are getting much cheaper as well (check the link i posted earlier about the Xbox Live sale that had Thief and Tomb Raider The Definitive Edition for half the price 1 month after release).

Da future again?

But there is none. I was talking about apples and you came talking about oranges.

Yes, true, but how exactly can you guarantee that Steel Battalion would have been successful on the PC? You said in your previous post that Steel Batallion didn't sell because the average console gamer couldn't afford it and that if it were on the PC it would be "selling like hot cakes even today". First, how exactly do you know what WOULD have happened? This is what i meant when i said that you were making up lies. Because, that's exactly what it is, a lie. You made a "what if" scenario and turned it into a FACT. How exactly do you expect people to take you seriously with arguments like this?

Second, the whole "console gamers couldn't afford it" argument was extremely arrogant and sounded like a "PC Master Race" elitist crap. "PC gamers can afford to buy expensive periphals, but console gamers can't because they are poor peasants". I mean, seriously?

Third, Steel Batallion was a niche thing, no question about that, but how exactly do you know if it would sell enough on a PC? If releasing niche games on PC was the recipe for success we wouldn't need Kickstarter to fund stuff like Broken Age, Wasteland 2, Torment.

Same goes for consoles. From ROB on the NES up to the Kinect/PS Move there have been tons of periphals for consoles.

Same goes for consoles. But to be fair, these things are niche regardless of the platform.

Well, they did make a sequel for the Xbox 360, but they decided to use the Kinect and it failed horribly.

Exactly. The millions of people that play Candy Crush Saga are also PC gamers.

No, actually, i can't. I don't want total revenue counting MOBAs, Candy Crush, Facebook crap, MMOs and F2P, because these games simply DO NOT exist on consoles (with a few exceptions, the Xbox 360 does have World of Tanks, for example).

Let's compare apples with apples, not apples with apples + oranges + bananas. I want you to show me something that proves that PCs sell more games than consoles.

"Undoubtedly"? Oh, yeah. I've seen many games in which people are still waiting for that patch that will "undoubtedly" come, especially when a company goes bankrupt shortly after the game is released (and it happens quite often). For example, if you go to the Prototype 1 and 2 forums on Steam, you will find out that sometimes the patch that people have been waiting for never comes. Activision closed the studio responsible for Prototype 2 shortly after released and the patch they promised to PC users was never made.

And even when the company is healthy, sometimes they just don't care about the PC port. Assassin's Creed 4 on the PC is still messed up according to users online.

Ok, so now you have admitted that the PC does suffer from bad ports much more than consoles. Now, let's recap what you said before, shall we? Well, you said that:

If you still think that waiting for AMD, nvidia and gaming companies to fix glaring issues is being "objectively superior", then i really don't have anything else to discuss on the matter. You just want to accept what you want to believe, even if the facts contradict it.

Thank you.

Oh, you don't? Even when i point out an obvious PC disadvantage (like shitty ports), you still don't agree with me.

Rage? I'm expressing my opinion just like you're expressing yours. Elitism is something that i really don't like and i always point it out when i see it.

Nope, wrong answer.

"usually (ˈjuːʒʊəlɪ)
adv
1. customarily; at most times; in the ordinary course of events"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/usually

There you go. I hope you can finally learn it this time.

Fixed it for you.

Predicting the future again? You really have to lend me your crystal ball.

Well, i don't think i'm the one dismissing facts with predictions of the future, unproven statements and "what-if" scenarios.

No way, we have to show him the TRUE GAMING PLATFORM. HAIL THE PC, THE KING OF GAMING! HAIL THE MASTER RACE!

Seriously, the PC is the only platform with pros and no cons according to you.

wot

http://static.gamespot.com/uploads/original/95/959445/2384822-8902308825-winte.jpg

https://bgr.com/2014/06/05/playstation-5-and-next-gen-xbox-launch/

PS5 and xbox 2 (or something) already hinted at.

Thank you for bothering to answer me time and again - i sure dont have time to get bored.

Ill answer later when i have time. maybe.

You're wrong. As far as PS1 and PS2 games go, Sony said they're working on PS4, is just a matter of optimition. This means once they're optimized, the games will be playable. As for PS3 games, they're working on that streaming thing. Not the greatest idea, but give them 2 years and they'll start releasing PS3 games at a discounted price for PSN, without streaming or other BS.
As for PC games looking better. I agree, but I also don't care as much. I don't mind weaker graphics. If I did, I wouldn't be here on GOG to buy and play all those old RPGs. Another thing that annoys me about PC is the actual digital distribution. I fancy myself as a collector, though I'm not exactly that as my collection is not big enough to prove it, long story short: I like games in physical form, and those are dying on PC. Most of the laptops you buy nowadays don't even have DVD readers. The day consoles will go all digital, that's the day I'll either quite gaming, only play old games, or move to PC altogether. GOG is the only exception from my list and the only place where I'll gladly buy games because of their DRM-free policy, great prices, nice bonuses, and good optimization on newer OSs. I keep Steam around only for bundles and gifts. Here's a mere example: There is only one game on my list of "Games to buy asap" that's for PC, and that is the physical bundle of the TES franchise they released. Aside from that, I have only old PC RPGs that I want to buy physically with the occasional racing or strategy game, but there's nothing else besides that.

No, no not at all.

It just so very tiring to argue with brick wall.

You know i really like good arguments and even sharp opinions (facts or no) - as long as they have some proper reasoning behind them.

But never mind: ive now learned that pc gaming actually sucks because:
-you cant at the moment legally play certain games,
- that the more powerful hardware that PC has actually results in lesser gameplay experience,
-that PC games arent actually even PC games to begin with,
-that the old PC games i play every week actually do not exist and are result of some sort of hallucination,
-that patching actually doesnt work at all,
-that every game on PC which isnt on consoles is "indie crap",
-that despite PC has more and wider selection of games - the good ones are only on consoles: "the licenced exclusive AAA games".

Ive very specifically written that consoles have certain advantages for certain audience. For now (2015, Steambox) - but reading your messages i get the feeling you think PC gaming is some sort of elitist fox hunt while the decent folk play with their perfect consoles.

Right.

Maybe ill get back to this eventually. Or maybe not. Ive got some foxes to hunt for now.

I think it's really sad that people compare the entire existence of the PC with only a console generation, or one console at the time. It's like comparing every motorcycle in existence with just one company of cars, or just the car models that were released in the time frame of 5 years.

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner here. You just won the Guinness award for the single post with the most fallacies ever made. Congratulations, buddy! Good job!

First off, to further show off his lack of arguments, he started with an ad hominem. Let's see what else the champion has up his sleeve.

He's on fire, 7 strawmans in a row! Nice one!

8th strawman, good job.

I'll call you "Mr Strawman" from now on.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

"By exaggerating, misrepresenting, or just completely fabricating someone's argument, it's much easier to present your own position as being reasonable, but this kind of dishonesty serves to undermine honest rational debate.
Example: After Will said that we should put more money into health and education, Warren responded by saying that he was surprised that Will hates our country so much that he wants to leave it defenceless by cutting military spending."

Can't argue against facts. Have a nice day.

I have a preference for Windows PC and Nintendo platforms and try to support them first, but aside from an outright refusal to support Sony, I go wherever the games I want are and I choose which system I buy a multiplatform game on based on the quality of the porting and the features offered.

I do tend to lean towards the console versions of action and driving games and PC or Wii U (Pointer control only) when it comes to FP/TPS as I simply can't stand dual analog controls. I only ever make exceptions for DA in the case of exclusives (Halo, Gears of War etc) or versions that offer other nice/unique features (Zombi U, Deus Ex: HR for Wii U).

I would generally go for the PC version of a multiplat if it's quantifiably better than the console versions, but if there's DRM in the way it can go jump. Of course if a game eventually comes out on GOG after I've bought the console version, i'll usually double dip to show support.

It's quite funny since I only own Sony consoles and I only support them on the console market. xD
They've been my favorites for years.

From which year onwards you want that exclusive game list of yours?

Just look at my post and try to make decent arguments unlike you did in your previous post. If you have anything to add to the discussion go ahead. But judging by your previous post, you don't, so have a nice day.