Yeah, they have too. The main difference is that most console DLC barely gets permanent discounts (for example, you can find DLC at 10$ for some maps for Perfect Dark Zero, a game from 2005, same price that at release date), and when they get a sale, it rarely drops more than 50% of its price.

Until the beginning of 2013 my main console was Xbox360. I had Wii too for a time. I know for sure the price I had to pay for the 180+ games I got on Xbox360 would have been lower on a PC, counting updating it. Here many retail releases doesn´t get high discounts either if they are too popular or if they don´t sell too much (in that case, they just get discontinued, even if the game didn´t get a single discount, sitting at 60$ at their last copies). Digital releases nearly always cost a lot more on any console than on PC. I know because I barely got one or two retail games digitally, because they were some of the few that got a nice discount, and not a higher price than retail.

So yeah, both console and PC have DLC. But console + 180+ games + DLC is surely more expensive than PC + 2 upgrades + 180+ games + DLC. I know both PS3 and Xbox360 started massive sales after announcing the no backwards compatible PS4 and XboxOne. But you can´t compare the sales before that to most of the PC sales. Even Indie games, which rarely drops under 5$ on consoles get cheaper on PC.

That was my point... After the same period of time, PC games usually have more and better discounts than console games, specially on the digital market.

Actually , I'm here to contradict you. Many DLC that is released for consoles becomes free after a few years. Examples are Assassin's Creed, inFAMOUS, Hitman; Absolution etc. Truth be told, it's not a majority of the DLC that becomes free, but you have to understand there are sales for consoles games too. Mere example: Ni No Kuni was 5 dollars 2 weeks ago on PSN among other dozen titles if not more. I'd say that's quite the discount.

I agree that some DLC become free after the years, but at least on the games I got, there were barely a few cases.

I know both PS3 and Xbox360 are getting massive discounts from E3 2013 up to now, but as I was saying, I can´t compare that period. The reason is from that point, both started to get obsolete because next generation was coming and PS4 and XboxOne aren´t backwards compatible. Of course they are getting huge discounts now, they know both of them will be dead in about 2-3 years, and all those games won´t be playable on the next generation (unless it gets ported and you pay again). I know PC games have the same problem (XP and Vista for example made incompatible many previous PC games), but you can always try a workaround and it´s never the full catalog. On PC, you don´t lose the entire library each time. Previously, on console it wasn´t the case either, as once generations used the same device (CDs-DVDs-BRs) they started to be backwards compatible... Until last generation came.

By the way, on Xbox360 there were barely a few retail games getting digitally a price lower than 10$ between 2005 and April/May 2013. Usually only once, for a short amount of time (a day, or, in the best cases, a week). On the same period of time, PC got a lot more of them and at better prices. I know PS3 had better discounts than Xbox360, but I sadly wasn´t a owner of one.

Sorry if I´m ranting, but I´ve changed a lot my mind about consoles since last year. You don´t pay for getting a game. You pay for being able to temporally play a game. I can still play plenty of 80-90 PC games on a current PC, even not compatible ones have workarounds, some kind of emulation, etc. But if I want to play any game from a previous console than PS4-XboxOne on both devices, I´m screwed unless they get ported and I pay, again. I wish this will change over time, but currently is just that: a wish.

So GOG is not PC gaming then? Unfortunately what you write above makes no sense. PC has decades worth of gaming and its only growing. True enough - there are games which worked better on some older windows/DOS - but thats why have services like GOG (the are others besides) and also Steam/Origin/Blizzard/etc are bringing all the ***** time those older games back to modern OS's.

There is absolutely no need to have "old PC" around to keep on playing majority of older games.

...but even if you needed for some obscure reason, then it would only put PC on same level as consoles - console gamers apparently do not mind having plenty of old consoles stored away somewhere to play their old games.

You should make up your mind. Is this PC vs all the consoles, PC vs all the Xbox, PC vs all PS's...? I am not certain if you notice it yourself, but atm youre doing quite some cherry picking by lumping all the consoles together. Youd have super good computer for the amount of money you need to buy all the consoles and their accessories for any single gen you know.

Havent compared and no intention in doing so any time soon. Great that you have played it before it is even re-release though.

I think you should try and buy some PC games elsewhere than Steam, Origin and Uplay . Like here on GOG for example. I have bookshelf full of games that work just fine by putting the disc inthe computer. Not that ill be doing that, as i ditched dvd from my newest computer willingly.

As ive said - PC gaming isnt just one platform like Steam. Steam is HUGE - but there are alternatives like GOG. And more keep on coming.

There is alot of speak about exchanging electronic games like Steam. Might be it comes in future. Atm in Steam you can share games on your account with family members. All you could just buy DRM free here on GOG for example and do whatever you please.

However - the games on PC are so cheap atm thanks to all bundles, huge sales and simply competition with different sellers that being able to resell or exchange games isnt really an issue.

Sigh.

8bit Nintendo had buttons A, B, Select, Start and the movements. Modern controller has way more buttons available and thus the game designer has more free hands to design the control method of the game character.

With just keyboard and mouse PC has more buttons available and also the more precise control with mouse than what you can have with controllers stick. On consoles you need to have alot of autoaiming and "locking" - on pc this sort of thing is usually frowned upon, because it messes up the precision.

HOWEVER - in the past years xbox controller has become pretty much defacto controller as its compatible with PC and all the console ports are ofcourse designed around it. There is growing number of PC games where controllers are not absolutely necessary - but highly recommended. And then there are few games like say Brothers - tale of two brothers (which was great!) that you cant play without controller.

That is however not a problem for pc. There have always been lots of controllers for PC and now they are finally being used in more standardized manner thanks to consoles.

SteelBatallion and its controller were cool. They just made the mistake of releasing it only on consoles. If they had released it for PC, the mechwarrior/hawken and other mech gamers would be buying that like hotcakes even today. However it was released on console and was too HC and too expensive for your average console gamer - and now its not getting any support.

PC gaming enthusiasts are willing to invest in their peripherals on different level than console gamers - there have always been super expensive wheels and flights sticks and what not on PC. Steel Batallions controller wouldnt have been some too expensive oddity unlike it was on the consoles.

---

I never said there arent games that use wheels and pedals etc on consoles - what i was saying is that the realistic simulation games which require those top end controllers are totally absent from consoles. The PC's more extensive (and expensive) controllers do not work properly on consoles because they have more functions than what consoles games are designed to use.

Your choice naturally. If youre so certain of your opinions, then watching it wouldnt certainly harm you. Your frames arent away from mine (...except on some bad console ports with locked framerate naturally).
Those "runs like crap" -videos all should have the options used there. Sure there are bad optimazations (which luckily tend to get better through patches) - but is silly to see someone show 1080p console video next to 2560x1440 pc with ultra graphic settings and then crying a river for poor fps.

Anyways, i am not going to argue game-to-game. It would make no sense. There are thousands of games and it makes no sense to argue one over the other.

You could just click preset graphics setting which every game has, use autodetection or if you have Nvidia graphics card use the "Geforce experience" optimization button which will give you the optimal settings for your given game and even update that profile automatically. AMD has similar program but cant remember the name.

Ofcourse if you just dont care, then not much i can do is there. Be happy with the console - its not like its crime you know ;)
"Usually" and "console exclusivity" are just words. Nothing set to stone.

As game has been out for while, its sales decline and any sensible marketing economist will tell you that at that moment it makes sense to drop the exclusivity and sell the game to new audience if the effort seems less than potential new sales.

I always prefer PC because of modding, community patches, higher resolution, better graphics, more possibilies regarding control methods, etc... Especcially widescreen and community patches for old games are just awesome and most of the really good games never existed on consoles anyway.
I got a 3DS-XL (mostly for NDS) and a Wii (mostly for GameCube), but I only use these a few times per year and if I had a PC that would be fast enough for emulating them perfectly in HD, I would prefer PC here too of course.

Those are some nice flight sticks - but like i said before, the buttons and knobs on those are limited to the same buttons you have in the controller. Certainly for majority of gamers that will be enough - heck majority do not even get flight stick in the first place.

But if you really want to play some realistic flight sims you will want to have either keyboard and/or more extensive flightstick combo with you or you wont be even getting off the ground with the plane. And you have to get PC as so far there really arent those realistic sim on consoles.

Ofcourse if the whole simulation genre, whether plane, car, tank or whatever is "meh" to you then this is totally non-debate.

You said it better than i could have.

Even if (when) Steam and other service go finally belly-up - plenty of the games are pretty much assured to stay playable thanks to DRM-free versions circulating around and emulators, if nothing else.

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I boggers my mind how the consoles do not seem to care about backwards compatibility.

Then again, the next gen consoles are once again likely to be on PC hardware - which means that console (atleast PS/xbox) backwards compatibility will actually improve in the future. From this point onwards - not backwards.

...I have however no inkling how xbox and PS are going to answer to Steambox and the eventual release of Oculusrift and the like. If they dont have enough power use those, they are going to be at serious disadvantage.

Some sort of unique must-have gimmick besides exclusives is definitely needed in the future.

You can already buy many of the old games again for newer Playstations via Sonys onlinestore. They just don't want to give anything for free, no matter how often you have to buy the game this way.
Sony has its own VR-headset called "Project Morpheus".
Console gaming is all about lots of money, DRM and proprietary hardware, that's why I don't like it.

It makes no sense to buy COD games on Steam. That brands prices there are always robbery.

Kinguin for example has multiple sellers selling Ghosts steam key for around 22€. Havent bothered to buy it at even that price though.
I think ive heard the name but didnt connect it to Sony.

Well, the VR gaming was supposed to come to market years ago...will be interesting to see if they finally actually make it succesfully or remain gimmick.

Since pixel density and refresh rates are no problem any more, I think it may change a lot now.
Oculus made the deal with Samsung and they will get their 1440p screens. A tiny fast screen for each eye with a higher resolution than my (really good and expensive) PC monitor...

Shouldnt really compare VR helmet miniscreen resolution to PC monitor resolution, nor TV resolution.

They are all quite different really. Especially the VR helmet ones.

But anyways, there is lots of competition on VR helmet field, so i am afraid of the technical aspects. What i am wondering are the actual game design choices and how in the nine hells i could use that in family without looking utterly silly and hitting furniture :D

PC games have workarounds only because of the OS being non restrictive and the easy accessible game files. If this wasn't the case, PC gaming wouldn't be where it is today. Not that this is a bad thing, but while I'll agree games look better on PC and are cheaper after a while, I'll also reinforce the fact that PC doesn't have any exclusives today outside of Strategy and indie games, and the fact most AAA games are just weaker ports than the console counterparts. The second disadvantage is easily solvable by community patches, though it is not always the case. If a port is weaker just because it was not optimized, many times people won't bother with it.

Forbes, 4/28/2014: As Global PC Game Revenue Surpasses Consoles, How Long Should Console Makers Keep Fighting?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2014/04/28/as-global-pc-game-revenue-surpasses-consoles-how-long-should-console-makers-keep-fighting/

Majority of the ports arent so crappy anymore. We are getting less crappy ports than before, thanks to consoles running on PC hardware.

The negative image you have is simply result of bad news traveling faster than light. You dont make so huge news when everything works fine.

And you bet there is always some pc configuration that has issues => news.

Good remakes are always welcome. I do not know this could be bad news. Just shows that companies deem it profitable to make remakes of very old games for pc. Oh wait, i forgot - pc is dying. Must be the last fit or something.

And doing it intentionally, eyes open - i know what i am missing there. Ive thought about going for consoles and even bought xbox 360 like i said - but in the end its not used for gaming. Luckily i can use the wireless xbox controller on pc though so its not all in vain ;)

Forbes, 4/28/2014: As Global PC Game Revenue Surpasses Consoles, How Long Should Console Makers Keep Fighting?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2014/04/28/as-global-pc-game-revenue-surpasses-consoles-how-long-should-console-makers-keep-fighting/

And that's exactly my point. If you want 100% backwards compability on PCs you need to keep an old PC around, especially for those early 3D games which are kind of tricky to run (Heavy Gear comes to mind).

If you're concerned with what i have or what i can buy, don't worry about it, i already have a super good computer. Since i own a good PC and consoles i don't have to go on a crusade like you to preach to the whole world that MY platform is the best ever. Can you see the difference between you and me? I'm not an elitist jerk like you.

What exactly do you mean?


Please, learn how to properly read and intrepret texts. You have twisted my argument completely. Nice strawman, by the way. What i said initially is that you can't sell, lend or buy second hand games on the PC. Even on DRM-free alternatives like GOG and Dotemu, you're still not allowed to sell or lend your games because it goes against the TOS. And when you buy physical games, guess what? They come with a cd-key to register in Steam/uPlay/Origin, again making it impossible to sell/lend/trade.

Can you see the difference now or do you want me to draw a picture?


Oh yes, in the future. Nice argument. Now please, give me that crystal ball of yours, i want to see my future.

And as i have explained, even with GOG games you can't do exactly as you please. Not legally, at least.


First, don't "sigh" me.

So, what? You're just posting for the sake of posting, right? Because i really can't see how this is relevant to the discussion in any way.

Make up your mind there, buddy. So, you keep telling me that PCs are cheaper and what not, and now you're saying that the average console gamer doesn't have enough money to buy a fucking game with a periphal? Aren't PC gamers the ones who need cheap bundles to be able to afford games? If console games are as expensive as you say they are, then i guess they could afford it more than PC gamers, no?

Can you see how much you're contradicting yourself?

Too bad PC gamers are not willing to spend as much on games. PC games sales are ridiculous compared to consoles, not to mention the rampant piracy.


http://gamingbolt.com/watch-dogs-pc-version-suffering-from-performance-and-frame-rate-issues

"According to several users, there have been frame rate and stuttering issues galore. These issues become apparent in more action oriented scenes like vehicle chases where the frame rate drops to a point to make the game unplayable. One player running the game on an Nvidia GeForce GTX 780 Ti with 6 GB RAM reported frame rate drops as low as 13 FPS on Ultra settings."

For the price of the GTX780Ti you could buy either the PS4 or the Xbox One and a bunch of games, and that's only the video card. So yeah, you get the idea. It should be able to run it on Ultra.


Of course you won't argue. You can't argue over facts.


I'm happy with my consoles, my PC and my portables. I can choose in which platform i want to play. That way i don't have to boost my e-peen on a gaming forum by preaching how much the "PC Master Race" is awesome.

I'm just here to point out the elitist BS and make fun of elitist jerks like you and Crosmando. Thank you for the laughs, by the way.

By the way, if you have such a need to make up lies and BS to "prove" that your platform is "superior" i don't think you're that happy with it.

Still don't know what usually means?

Oh, by the way, maybe you can convince Jamyskis to come back to the "PC Master Race" group? He recently turned into a Dirty Console Peasant because he wasn't happy with PC gaming lately. With so many good arguments on why consoles suck and PC is the best thing ever created, you should be able to convince him.