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General discussion (archive)This better be System Shock...(67 posts)(67 posts)
(67 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 13, 2013
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Crosmando: What a load of bunk, games exist to be played, I give zero fucks for your dumbass fanboy opinions on this, you are obviously only saying this rubbish because this is GOG.com forums and you feel the need to score some post ratings by talking like that.

If a developer/publisher no longer cares to sell/support their game, via a distributor like GOG or otherwise, then it's fair game, they obviously do not care about the game and do not want gamers to see it.

It's because of dumbass opinions like yours that the heritage and history of PC gaming is being forgotten, because the developer went bankrupt over a decade over and the legal files are probably gathering dust in some abandoned office space.

Also, stop word dropping "illegal" like it's some kind of bomb. You sound like less of a gamer and more of a fanboy, which is probably why you have all that delicious Rep amirite? Less time shitposting on forums and more time playing games you for champ.
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Fuzzyfireball: You asked for evidence, he gave it, and now you attack him. Take your own advice about shitposting.

http://www.gog.com/forum/general/system_found/post65?staff=yes
That's not evidence, it's opinion. Quote me a legal statute, legislation or some such and then you might have an argument to stand on.
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Crosmando: What a load of bunk, games exist to be played, I give zero fucks for your dumbass fanboy opinions on this, you are obviously only saying this rubbish because this is GOG.com forums and you feel the need to score some post ratings by talking like that.

If a developer/publisher no longer cares to sell/support their game, via a distributor like GOG or otherwise, then it's fair game, they obviously do not care about the game and do not want gamers to see it.

It's because of dumbass opinions like yours that the heritage and history of PC gaming is being forgotten, because the developer went bankrupt over a decade over and the legal files are probably gathering dust in some abandoned office space.

Also, stop word dropping "illegal" like it's some kind of bomb. You sound like less of a gamer and more of a fanboy, which is probably why you have all that delicious Rep amirite? Less time shitposting on forums and more time playing games you for champ.
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cogadh: Wow, overreact much? You asked, I answered. You don't like the undeniable facts I have laid out, that's your problem. I only brought it up because GOG is one of the few places actually doing something about the problem of "abandonware" in a completely legal way that not only actively preserves gaming history, but further encourages the devs, publishers and other rights holders to participate in that preservation. They don't need the potential hassle of ignorant forum members pushing illegal software, which could come back to bite them in the ass when one of those rights holders decides they don't want to work with a company that allows that stuff in their community.

As for my rep, I got that by actively participating in these forums in a (mostly) positive way for over 4 years now; answering peoples questions, not flying off the handle for no good reason, generally being decent to anyone here. You might try doing that yourself sometime.
GOG is a good thing, but there's no assurances at all that they will get all classic PC games here because of legal issues, and if they do it could take years and years, and time is a valuable resources to people.

And in any event, ALL abandonware sites are very decent, they remove downloads of abandonware the second it comes to GOG, posting a link to buy it on GOG in it's place, hell they even host "Get all your classic games DRM-free on GOG" ad banners.

And no, there's no legal statute in existence that says abandonware is illegal, deal with it. And anyone who has any sort of history emulating old PC games for DOS/Amiga has to use abandonware, of course vast majority buy it when/if it comes to GOG, but asking people to wait YEARS if there's a game they want to play, is ridiculous dogmatic rubbish. It's Anti-Gaming rubbish.
Post edited February 13, 2013 by Crosmando
Posted February 13, 2013
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Fuzzyfireball: You asked for evidence, he gave it, and now you attack him. Take your own advice about shitposting.

http://www.gog.com/forum/general/system_found/post65?staff=yes
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Crosmando: That's not evidence, it's opinion. Quote me a legal statute, legislation or some such and then you might have an argument to stand on.
You're right, anyone from GOG is probably just talking out of their ass. It's not like they deal with this kind of shit everyday.
Posted February 13, 2013
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Crosmando: And no, there's no legal statute in existence that says abandonware is illegal, deal with it. And anyone who has any sort of history emulating old PC games for DOS/Amiga has to use abandonware, of course vast majority buy it when/if it comes to GOG, but asking people to wait YEARS if there's a game they want to play, is ridiculous dogmatic rubbish. It's Anti-Gaming rubbish.
You didn't even read the post before mine did you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention_for_the_Protection_of_Literary_and_Artistic_Works

There's your law. Deal with it.

EDIT - and how it specifically applies to "abandonware":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware#Law
Post edited February 13, 2013 by cogadh
Posted February 13, 2013
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Strijkbout: Great Terminator: SkyNET is coming to GOG. :)

When the counter reaches zero, it will say: System Found....... SkyNET active.....
mmm... Bethesda Terminator games.
Posted February 13, 2013
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Crosmando: And no, there's no legal statute in existence that says abandonware is illegal, deal with it. And anyone who has any sort of history emulating old PC games for DOS/Amiga has to use abandonware, of course vast majority buy it when/if it comes to GOG, but asking people to wait YEARS if there's a game they want to play, is ridiculous dogmatic rubbish. It's Anti-Gaming rubbish.
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cogadh: You didn't even read the post after mine did you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention_for_the_Protection_of_Literary_and_Artistic_Works

There's your law. Deal with it.
No, a law that specifically deals with the status of digital properties that are no longer sold or supported by it's owners, not a law that predates the invention of the personal computer by over half a century.
Posted February 13, 2013
Ah, the reaction when this turns out to be a misunderstanding, with the game in question being Creature Shock...
Posted February 13, 2013
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cogadh: You didn't even read the post after mine did you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention_for_the_Protection_of_Literary_and_Artistic_Works

There's your law. Deal with it.
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Crosmando: No, a law that specifically deals with the status of digital properties that are no longer sold or supported by it's owners, not a law that predates the invention of the personal computer by over half a century.
Regardless of when the law was written, it is still valid and still applies, even to software. It covers all copyright works produced in all signatory countries. You might not like it, but that is the way it is.
Posted February 13, 2013
I would just like to interject here because i cannot sit back and watch someone get ripped apart for talking total common sense by people who have no clue what they are talking about.

Do you think the developers own the licence to the IP? do you think that the people who "MADE" the game are the ones with the right to decide what happens?

I am afraid you are totally wrong and Cogadh is not only correct he/she is a correct to a degree that has me wonder what he/she does for a living.

I will not refer to SS because there is alot of heat on the matter instead i will take a very recent development in the industry to explain what he is/she is trying to get through to you.

THQ recently saw the end of the existence, on January 23rd auction of it's assets were sold off right ..... so why is it therefor that we have not heard the confirmation of Homeworld 3? Sega have Relic they have HW licence right? WRONG.

The licence is not the property of the developer it is property fof the publisher. 25000 votes for Grim Fandango and GoG haven't got it to you? WHY because they cannot secure a distribution deal with Lucasarts for whatever reason the people who own the rights to the product.

It doesnt matter if you can't buy it, it doesn't matter if it appears to have gone out of existence SOMEONE OWNS THE RIGHTS TO THAT LICENCE! and as Coga has rightly stated UNAUTHORIZED DISTRIBUTION of the product in question is so far beyond illegal that the whole argument goin on in here questions the morals of the people involved OR proves the only person in here with a shred of understanding for the whole thing is the one person you are all yelling at .... it is ignorant and it is ridiculous.

Relic do NOT own the Homeworld licence Sierra did and it was bought off them some years back by THQ who now do not exist and Relic STILL do not own the licence neither do Sega, in fact as far as we understand the licence will be auctioned off at a later date as part of a legacy asset bundle.

Why did i use homeworld? because it is a good old game that .... wait for it .... IS NOT ON GOG. Yet Ground Control is the SAME publisher SAME owner right? wrong just because their name is on it now doesn't mean they still OWN it now.

I have skipped going into legislation and approached an explanation from another point of view in the hope you will now accept that no matter how hard you do not want it to be the case. You are very much mistaken and the guy who said :

"If a developer/publisher no longer cares to sell/support their game, via a distributor like GOG or otherwise, then it's fair game, they obviously do not care about the game and do not want gamers to see it. "

really needs to be quiet .... the developers are NOT the one selling so merging the 2 only shows you are trying to cover all angles on a subject matter you clearly no very little about. IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT FAIR GAME! it is a LEGALLY AND BINDINGLY owned licence/product/IP that GOG cannot suddenly decide "Oh we will sell this tomorrow" - you want proof? go check the community votes section - note the games that have THOUSANDS of votes, now note the ones who have a few hundred and compare which ones have COMPLETED next to them.

If any of you are adult or responsible enough to take courage in your convictions and responsablity for your actions you will apologise to Coga.
Post edited February 13, 2013 by obiwan
Posted February 13, 2013
The heck?

I wasn't implying GOG can sell a game without a contract, if that's what you meant. I was simply saying that it may take years for some games to come to GOG, games from the DOS and Amiga era that are impossible to find a floppy version from ebay. They may very well never come to GOG.
Posted February 13, 2013
Can i just point out that i am defending Coga from the standpoint that he/she is correct and that software cannot just suddenly be "free game" because you don't hear of it anymore.

HOWEVER i have not read all comments and if this argument was started because people want the little countdown to be for System Shock ... the argument that it is FREE GAME is complete nonsense BUT!!!

EA are the current owners of the System Shock license, there are already plenty EA owned titles available to buy on GoG. It is safe to say that if the countdown is for a System Shock re-release via GoG .... then you are all in luck because there is plenty evidence to show it is possible.

BUT yelling at someone and talking utter rubbish to win an argument is not the way to convince ourselves, fabricated nonsense and hammering people who know what they are talking about is not on.

Looking at facts is how to do it, SS owned by EA, EA titles already on GOG ... no reason to think SS is not about to see a GOG release but do NOT make the mistake of thinking GOG own the license i believe that is the issue here.
Posted February 13, 2013
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cogadh: You didn't even read the post after mine did you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention_for_the_Protection_of_Literary_and_Artistic_Works

There's your law. Deal with it.
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Crosmando: No, a law that specifically deals with the status of digital properties that are no longer sold or supported by it's owners, not a law that predates the invention of the personal computer by over half a century.
Standard copyright laws already cover it. The type of clarification you're looking for doesn't usually come from additional legislation, but from a court case. And as the Wikipedia article pointed out, litigation for 'abandonware' cases is extremely rare. That doesn't mean that it's legal until a court or law says otherwise, it just means that practically you can get away with it. As long as the copyright is valid then traditional copyright law still applies.
Posted February 13, 2013
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Crosmando: The heck?

I wasn't implying GOG can sell a game without a contract, if that's what you meant. I was simply saying that it may take years for some games to come to GOG, games from the DOS and Amiga era that are impossible to find a floppy version from ebay. They may very well never come to GOG.
Cros please do not take my late response as being to the last few people who have spoke. You did not say

"If a developer/publisher no longer cares to sell/support their game, via a distributor like GOG or otherwise, then it's fair game, they obviously do not care about the game and do not want gamers to see it. "

this rubbish.

If you read my comment, scratch your head and think "but i never said that" then you are absolutely exempt from it and have no reason to think otherwise :)
Posted February 13, 2013
Actually, I don't believe EA owns the SS2 license, it's held by these Night Dive guys and/or "Clearmeadow Insurance Group" (or whatever they're called), and I never implied any of these games are "free", I own like all of GOG's catalog, many of which I already had on CD and got a digital version for the sake of it.

But this whole SS2 fiasco is just what I'm talking about, I mean 4-5 years legal work just to get one 14-year old game on GOG? You know what the average life-span of a human being is right? Do you want me to show you my backlog?
Posted February 13, 2013
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Crosmando: Actually, I don't believe EA owns the SS2 license, it's held by these Night Dive guys and/or "Clearmeadow Insurance Group" (or whatever they're called), and I never implied any of these games are "free", I own like all of GOG's catalog, many of which I already had on CD and got a digital version for the sake of it.

But this whole SS2 fiasco is just what I'm talking about, I mean 4-5 years legal work just to get one 14-year old game on GOG? You know what the average life-span of a human being is right? Do you want me to show you my backlog?
The fact you say SS2 license has me scratching my head. You realise it is SS and in order to ever have published SS2 they would have had to aquire System Shock from Origin Systems. You cannot make a sequel of a game that you do not own the license to. Why do you think Armed Assault is not called Operation Flashpoint 2? and yet OFP2 exists! why because Codemasters owned the sodding license and USED the name that was well regarded within it's relevant community to sell a product that bore no resemblance in substance OR sodding quality to the original.

It is a messy messy business ... however this night dive, clearmeadow stuff i am not arguing this till i actually have reason could you send me a link or something as to where you got this info from please ... i am genuinely interested here this is not some condescending question to make you look a fool i have not heard that EA sold the SS license but that does not mean it did not happen. Could you supply me some source please.
Posted February 13, 2013
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Crosmando: But this whole SS2 fiasco is just what I'm talking about, I mean 4-5 years legal work just to get one 14-year old game on GOG? You know what the average life-span of a human being is right? Do you want me to show you my backlog?
You may make as many great arguments for why something should be legal as you want, but if it's illegal, it'll probably still be illegal after you're done.

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obiwan: Could you supply me some source please.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/02/13/many-questions-system-shock-2-comes-to-gog/
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)This better be System Shock...(67 posts)(67 posts)
(67 posts)