I'd say there are 3 major types of gamer customers: the steam "no achievement no buy" fanboys, the GOG "no DRM-free no buy" fanboys, and the sale hunters. It's obviously nowhere near 100% accurate, but I do think those are the stereotypes. Steam fanboys will buy on steam no matter what, sales hunters will buy anywhere as long as it's cheap, and GOG fanboys will buy here so long as the ideals (they think) GOG represnts are uphold.

If GOG were to 180 on all it's supposed core values, which is rapidly narrowing to DRM-free, it would lose it's niche audience. Luckily for them, they seem to have knack for interesting sales.

There is no way that GOG could abandon DRM free and stay in business for very long. The whole reason that people buy from this site instead of Steam or Origin is because the titles are sold DRM free. If they had DRM people would just buy them from Steam. There would be little reason to buy here.

Yeah, I agree. Certain of the niche group would be gone but I don't think it would hurt them, especially if they find new ways to attract new business and I'm sure they are thinking about how to do that all the time.

That is kinda funny about the Steam no-achieves/no buy group. I do see those posts over there sometimes. I like achievements as they are kinda fun to get just as I go along playing something but I am not the kind to ever try to deliberately get a bunch or even any for that matter. It's a cool system where somebody like me who just takes what they get can have some fun with them too. So I like to see a game has them but I wouldn't not buy a game because it didn't.

Unless on a particular day it was cheaper to buy a game here or if GOG found new ways to differentiate themselves or both.

Similarly, most gamers don't care about Mac. Just look at the number of Windows gamers out there compared to the number of Mac gamers, it is huge. That obviously means Mac gamers are an irrelevant bunch of gamers and it doesn't make much sense to invest on Mac gaming, right?

The same arguments that you constantly use to "prove" that DRM-free games are irrelevant can be used to "prove" that Mac gaming is irrelevant.

I personally don't believe GOG can ever really compete with price against e.g. the Steam key stores (like GreenManGaming) with very low margins, unless GOG became yet another Steam key seller shop themselves.

As for other ways to differentiate, what would those be? Something that GOG hasn't already tried?

I am not saying it is impossible that GOG might try DRM in some form at some point (e.g. Steam keys, or 3rd party account requirements (like Final Fantasy 7 PC)), but as eagarza asked, what would be their selling point at that point? Why not buy a dirt cheap Steam key from GreenManGaming, Amazon.com or even HumbleBundle instead?

Not really. Steam didn't start supporting the Mac for nothing. Now there is over 1,000 titles for Mac on Steam. GOG didn't start supporting Mac out of charity, there was money to be made and they've sold over a million units to Mac gamers. I read that here not too long ago but I am sorry I forget exactly where so I cannot link it for you. Feel free to decide I am lying or whatever. The point remains, GOG sells Mac games for a reason: they make money. The same is true with Steam. The same is true with Amazon.com. The same is true with the Mac App Store.

Yes, Mac gaming is a much smaller market than Windows but our money is still money and there are plenty of game makers like Blizzard, Valve, Aspyr, Feral Interactive, EA, Paradox and many more who are happy to take our money. They seem to feel we are relevant. What is irrelevant is your continued references to unrelated issues in a discussion about DRM.

Your attempts to get under my skin about being a Mac user are obvious but they don't say anything about the topic. If you have something to add about DRM or not on GOG, please by all means do so. Nobody other than you cares about what computer or operating system I use I don't think.

And the same is true also to DRM-free games. If it didn't make sense to sell them, then GOG wouldn't. GOG doesn't do it out of charity, as far as I can tell they are doing pretty well financially with the DRM-free "bs marketing" as you call it. The money from people who like to buy DRM-free games is still money, just as the money from the relatively few people who prefer to buy Mac games are also money.

Well, your only point all the time seem to be "There are far more Steam users than GOG users, ergo, DRM-free games don't matter.". That same silly argument works just as well to showing how Mac gaming is irrelevant, as there are far more Windows gamers out there compared to Mac gamers.

The idea that it would make sense for GOG to start selling games with DRM is similar as that e.g. it would make sense for Apple to start selling also Windows PCs. Who knows, maybe it would work, extra revenue.

Okay, since you just edited in the above to your previous post I will respond to this stuff.

Why not sell keys? Other places do. Not everybody has the same keys on sale on the same day. There is opportunity to make sales for another store, especially a high visibility store like GOG with a lot of traffic. Why not buy a dirt cheap key at GOG too during a sale? For that matter, why not buy a dirt cheap whatever with DRM? If it's a better deal on the day somebody wants it or is told about it, for plenty of people that wins - sale!

As for other ways to differentiate? Well, they have some already such as free soundtracks and occasionally other goodies of value like strategy guides. It isn't my job to figure this out for GOG but I am sure they could come up with some ideas and I'd imagine they already devote time to thinking about this very stuff. Actually, I can think of a couple others. They have nice modding guides here. I know I have used them and was glad they were here. I could not have found those on Steam which doesn't even carry the games I wanted to mod. They have this open forum unlike Steam. For some that is a plus. There is freedom of speech here. You don't see that too often. I think GOG could cut out it's own place really.

There are numerous game retailers. Should they all shut down and concede to Steam? For some reason people still choose to buy games at various places like Amazon, GMG, HB, GOG, Steam, Origin, Uplay, etc. They all manage somehow and carve out their own little parts of the market somehow don't they? Why couldn't GOG too? I don't buy the idea that a now established ship will immediately sink if they just start selling what everybody else already does. I could be wrong I guess but I don't think so.

I don't disagree with you there. It made perfect sense to hype classics as DRM-free: a catalog of games that would all be DRM-free back then anyway when they started out. And it made sense to stick with it for a long time too. It brought more people here. I get that. I get that those people are relevant, that their money is relevant. Sure it is. I also agree completely that DRM-free is an ideal that would be really nice. Where I differ from some is that I do not believe for a moment that there is any revolution going on or that there ever was. Most stuff here without DRM wouldn't ever have had it anyway. I don't buy the stuff about fighting some good fight, etc. I think most of that was marketing spin. I think the core values were well intentioned perhaps but ultimately given how they were promoted, also marketing spin.

I'm not envisioning a GOG.com where everything has DRM by any means. Just like with other stores as I think you may have noted they'd still have plenty to offer without it. I just think the so-called core value of No DRM is going to be tossed too in favor of selling high profile AAA games here to grow and make even more money. I don't blame them for wanting to grow or even doing that myself. I just think GOG could have handled all of this better, a lot better.

You answered it yourself above.

Why wouldn't Apple sell also Android phones and tablets? Other vendors do. Similar question.

So GOG is already a high visibility store with a lot of traffic, even though they are not selling Steam keys, or DRM AAA games? Could there be some correlation there, ie. GOG has high visibility and traffic exactly because they are different from most others? Like, say, by concentrating on DRM-free games?

Selling e.g. Steam keys could indeed increase GOG's profits, at least in short term. But the downside could well be that then they make their own service and infrastructure irrelevant in the process. Just see what has happened to e.g. GreenManGaming and GamersGate over time, are they really considered more nowadays but low-margin sellers of Steam (and maybe Origin) keys? They made their own services irrelevant by starting to promote their competitor, Steam.

You can't be seriously suggesting that DRM-free games are an irrelevant thing for GOG from a business point of view (ie. one of the major reason that pulls people here to buy GOG games), but some extra goodies are?

That's odd, I found quite many good modding guides to Steam games, also on Steampowered forums. E.g. I recall when I modded Saints Row 2 so that it actually ran correctly (with the Gentlemen Row mod or whatever it was called), I recall reading the instructions from Steampowered forums.

Also, I presume other Steam-only games, like Bethesda games, having quite a lot of modding guides there.

Yes, GOG has nice fan-made modding guides for various GOG games, but that being a bigger selling point for GOG than DRM-free games? I have hard time believing that.

Except for the two big publisher stores (EA Origin and Ubisoft Uplay), haven't the others already pretty much succumbed to Steam already? Does someone still buy Capsule-DRM games from e.g. GMG? Seriously? How many Capsule-games do you have from there, when was the last time you bought such a game from there? I have bought only dirt cheap Steam keys from GMG.

I didn't say it would "immediately sink", in fact I said selling also Steam keys could well increase GOG revenues at least in short term. But then they would be promoting their competitor, and they could end up turning their own service into irrelevance in the process, just like has pretty much happened to many of those you mentioned before.

Yes, Apple could make even more money by starting to sell Apple Android phones and tablets. But maybe you understand why they choose not to.

Although Apple has retail stores for their own line of products, they are not primarily a retailer - they are a maker of those products which are also sold in other stores. In contrast, GOG is a retailer only. They do not make anything. Can you see the distinction there? No hardware vendor is going to sell other people's hardware in their stores unless it is something that doesn't compete with their own stuff. GOG can sell whatever it likes. It's all good. Nothing GOG sells would compete with what GOG makes because GOG does not make anything.

As I said, GOG could find ways to appeal to customers just like other stores do. All the others are still in business too. Somebody must be buying games from them. GOG built this business on classics, not DRM-free. More than anything else, people initially flocked here to get classic games. I hope you aren't going to argue with me about that. A lot of people do still shop here primarily for classics. I know I am one of those people. I don't buy new games here and I won't no matter what they do. I already have accounts with Steam and the App Store and Origin for new games. I don't need any other sources for those. I actually prefer Steam the most and most of my games are there. I like having friends there and the features and having most of my stuff in one place. So, GOG can do whatever it likes and it won't affect me personally unless classics dry up but they seem to be doing pretty good with continuing to bring those out here and there. That is certainly a place they can differentiate themselves - get back to doing what they did best more of the time. Be first with classics at the least. I still view that as being what makes GOG special. It always did and still does for me. I am guessing I am not alone there.

As for Steam keys, whatever. I don't really have much opinion either way about whether they should carry them or not. I guess they should do whatever the most customers would like them to. Then again, maybe you have a good point and offering those same games here, DRM and all, would be better. For Steam exclusives though, selling keys is the only way to grab some of that revenue and why leave it on the table?

Yes. In fact, a survey wasn't even necessary, just the customer data would be enough. Steam is hugely popular. People who use Steam don't mind DRM. Most GOG customers - not forum regulars but people who buy games and vote with their dollars - are Steam users. They won't mind any change that makes GOG more like Steam. In a survey, they are going to vote "I'm fine with DRM" or at best "I don't care, whatever". Maybe the community will disperse, but who gives a damn? Youtube is iconic for its remarkable community and Google doesn't mind.

No. There's no guarantee that anyone aping steam will achieve steam's success - in fact, GFWL and to a lesser extent Origin pretty much proved the opposite. This is the internets, where everything is accessible and economies of scale matter. You can try to repeat a brick and mortar's store success by cloning the concept in a demographically similar town; this shit just doesn't fly on the internets. You have to carve out a niche and occupy it. And that's why listening to the very predictable "community vote" is super wrong, and the forum trolls and hos are right for once: we are here because of the things that distinguish GOG from any other store. In precisely this aspect, a dollar ho's vote counts for more than a flyby GOG/steam bulk purchaser's.

Main focus or not there was plenty of other doomsday crier in the other threads...

Of course Gog is a business and not a charity, I don't think anybody had any doubt about it, and maybe someday they will drop their DRM-free stance (they will lose me and my "buy everything they release" policy the day they do though), but creating a new thread to gloat about it before it actually happen seems kind of useless.

It's really not. If it doesn't happen he can stand-by with "not yet anyway", that is if anyone takes him to task at all, and if it does happen he can gleefully dig up the thread and rub it in everyone's face.

It's a no-lose situation.

Don't cross the steams. crossing the steams is bad.

wait a minute. wrong show.