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Hawk52: If you seriously can't see the difference between a woman with big breasts and a character who wears a top with a huge cleavage hole for no reason other then fan service and whose gigantic breasts FLY around her model at the slightest twitch with a physics model not seen anywhere else but in breast models then you are pretty deluded. It's not that hard to present a sexy woman as respectable. Making a physics model that cannot actually work in the real world and pointless cleavage? Works against that idea.
I dunno, she wasn't exactly subtle but not that exaggerated either, besides if you didn't like her there was still shani wich you would probably consider more "normal".
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orcishgamer: Feminists do get a bad rep, because there's a subset that runs around being verbally abusive to men who largely don't deserve it would otherwise be on their side (or at least consider it). Instead the men get called rapists and abusers for asking legitimate questions about some of the more "out there" positions. So instead of debate and understanding you get a break down of communication and the term feminist means unreasonable psycho to many.
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Leroux: Just because some may abuse it that's no excuse for discarding the whole concept and act like a dick yourself (generally speaking, not directed at you, orcishgamer!).
I don't disagree, it's just kind of hard to win the average person over to your cause when they think you're being dicks. Feminists are far from the only cause that could learn this lesson.
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orcishgamer: I don't disagree, it's just kind of hard to win the average person over to your cause when they think you're being dicks. Feminists are far from the only cause that could learn this lesson.
*cough* PETA *cough*
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mutishev: I really can't understand what is all the anger against the big boobs.
I love them and they are great. I don't know any man who doesn't love them and doesn't like to look at them.

No offence, but United States attitude to sexuality really scares me.
My ex boss was at US for a year and once opened a door for approaching old female worker and she accused him for sexual harassment or something like that. Thank God her bosses convinced her that he is from another country and there men try to be polite to women and especially aged ones.
Last summer a friend of my younger cousin was on a seminar at US and on the first day there they went shopping at some mall. A shop girl smiled to the group and our guy stopped walking, smiled back excited and said "How you doing? or How are you?" Next moment she called security and later police, because the guy "jumped on her". All ended good, because they found out that the group ( two males and three females) was not from US.

On topic, it's a game chill out and enjoy the view. Stop with all the moral jokes, sex is a natural thing and one of the very best thing in our lives.
Agreed.
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Fujek: I can't help it but the first screen-shot of the new Star control GoG release seems to be hilariously fitting this thread.

*chuckles* Nice one there GoG, nearly empathic!
Reminds me of the green chicks from ST: TOS
Post edited April 19, 2011 by GameRager
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mystral: So... if a woman has big breasts she isn't entitled to respect, but instantly becomes only a sex object, is what you're saying. There are so many things wrong with that I don't know where to start.
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Hawk52: If you seriously can't see the difference between a woman with big breasts and a character who wears a top with a huge cleavage hole for no reason other then fan service and whose gigantic breasts FLY around her model at the slightest twitch with a physics model not seen anywhere else but in breast models then you are pretty deluded. It's not that hard to present a sexy woman as respectable. Making a physics model that cannot actually work in the real world and pointless cleavage? Works against that idea.
I think you need to replay the game, because Triss just wasn't that exaggerated. Huge by the standards of actual women, yes, but not that big by the standards of video game characters, and definitely not physically impossible.

Furthermore, it was quite clear from the start of the game that Triss was a strong woman and not just there to provide gratuitous fanservice. Of course if you pay more attention to character models than to the dialog, you wouldn't know that.
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Hawk52: If you seriously can't see the difference between a woman with big breasts and a character who wears a top with a huge cleavage hole for no reason other then fan service and whose gigantic breasts FLY around her model at the slightest twitch with a physics model not seen anywhere else but in breast models then you are pretty deluded. It's not that hard to present a sexy woman as respectable. Making a physics model that cannot actually work in the real world and pointless cleavage? Works against that idea.
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mystral: I think you need to replay the game, because Triss just wasn't that exaggerated. Huge by the standards of actual women, yes, but not that big by the standards of video game characters, and definitely not physically impossible.

Furthermore, it was quite clear from the start of the game that Triss was a strong woman and not just there to provide gratuitous fanservice. Of course if you pay more attention to character models than to the dialog, you wouldn't know that.
Maybe Hawk and others should start a self hating "womanizers" club. :\
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Popinjay: Enough of this crap I'm enraged that they don't print naked men onto their advertisement and that they won't do a DA2 and saturate it with homosexuality.

Clearly indicative of something somewhere for someone to bitch about.
You guys ever see "Moon"? Sam Rockwell's ass. Ruined Hitchhiker's Guide for me forever. The remake, anyway. I've still got the BBC miniseries to enjoy, which was more "complete" than the movie to begin with.

The point being that male nudity is unattractive for all parties involved.
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orcishgamer: Yeah some examples:
Rape is just slightly less common with men victims than female (bet you didn't know that).
Rape is an accepted deterrent against men committing crimes.
Any family law attorney will tell you to run out of your house with your arms crossed in front of you if your wife/girlfriend is beating the shit out of you. You cannot even grab her arms to stop her, the man ALWAYS goes to jail in the US. It doesn't matter if you grabbed her arms to prevent her from hitting you with a baseball bat.
Men that I know have literally been chased out of their homes and locked themselves in the bathroom with their wives right behind them with a butcher knife or similar. I've never seen one go to jail or even be arrested, let alone have their children removed from them.
It's starting to change a bit, very slowly. I think October is the specific month to deal with male domsetic violence issues.

I do have a few links which I hadn't had time to post in terms of wanting to dedicate actual time to responding if need be.

Some of the better articles I've seen are:
http://www.theroot.com/print/29125
http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/05/20/us-men-too-suffer-domestic-violence-idUSPAT97046720080520
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2013743521_domesticviolence26.html
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Leroux: Just because some may abuse it that's no excuse for discarding the whole concept and act like a dick yourself (generally speaking, not directed at you, orcishgamer!).
When your platform is based largely upon moral authority it definitely is a big deal. It's one thing to make an argument that rape, sexual abuse and domestic violence are wrong, and quite another to qualify it by indicating that the sex of the individuals matters.

There's no basis in reality for feminists to claim the high ground on those issues in the US, in the last few months around here we've had 3 teachers arrested for sexual relations with students 2 were women and 1 was male.

Personally, I tend to feel really strongly just because I've seen with my own eyes how brazen women can be about it without having to worry about getting caught. Having feminists marginalize something which is that common amongst the male experience really undermines the legitimate arguments they make about these sorts of crimes being wrong.
Post edited April 20, 2011 by hedwards
Not to mention male on male rape and "domestic violence". And not just in prison. It happens in or around bars and clubs, and in the victim's own home. At least one guy's been brought into the ER after being brutalized in the hallway of his own dorm house. People think that just because it happens on screen that it's Hollywood sensationalism. For the most part that's true, but sometimes it really happens.
[…Annoying conservative guy emerges from the shadows after a year of absence…]

It's unfortunate to see CDP advertising in a magazine that is built on stripping (no pun intended) the human body of its dignity (soft pornography is still pornography. Just because there is more filthy stuff around does not stop it from being filthy). It's all calculated I'm sure – few sales lost, more sales gained. Just some of those new buyers will be surprised when they find out that their laptop's Intel HD graphics will be unable to display Triss' butt.
Anyway – as a result of this “interesting” campaign (and the Securom stuff) – the Witcher 2 for me has fallen from “first month buy” to “wait until it hits bargain bin”. I don't have problem with the game , but I do have a problem with the marketing. I'll still buy it at some point – just not now and definitely not at a full price. I'm patient. I'll wait 3 years until it costs 30 PLN.

[…Annoying conservative guy goes back into the shadows…]
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hedwards: ...
I will get around to reading these. I can no longer find the name but there was an old feminist writer that was a dude, in the last 10 years or so he's been calling for a masculinist revolution (I'm not sure that's the term he uses), men are largely treated as disposable by society which is a throwback to old needs and really outmoded (essentially, you need a lot of uteruses to repopulate but a few penises will do).

He had a lot of interesting research like how young males are 5 times more likely to commit suicide, way more likely to go to prison, and will have seen death something like 10,000 times portrayed in the media by age 20, over 9000 of those deaths will have been of male characters.

The upshot is that he feels society is finally starting to value women but still treats men barbarically (a few alpha males rise to the top, but that's rather exclusive). If anyone has this fellow's name, I'd love to recall it. He's written a lot of books as I recall.
EDIT: off topic
Post edited April 21, 2011 by Darling_Jimmy
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orcishgamer: I will get around to reading these. I can no longer find the name but there was an old feminist writer that was a dude, in the last 10 years or so he's been calling for a masculinist revolution (I'm not sure that's the term he uses), men are largely treated as disposable by society which is a throwback to old needs and really outmoded (essentially, you need a lot of uteruses to repopulate but a few penises will do).

He had a lot of interesting research like how young males are 5 times more likely to commit suicide, way more likely to go to prison, and will have seen death something like 10,000 times portrayed in the media by age 20, over 9000 of those deaths will have been of male characters.

The upshot is that he feels society is finally starting to value women but still treats men barbarically (a few alpha males rise to the top, but that's rather exclusive). If anyone has this fellow's name, I'd love to recall it. He's written a lot of books as I recall.
People forget that a significant number of early feminists were men. And that early on, particularly during the 60s, the movement was as much about bettering society for men as for women. The belief of the time was that there was an imbalance and that everybody was being harmed by it, definitely not just women.

During the late 70s and early 80s that was tossed from the movement and there was a lot more focus put on more material things and an increasingly hostile view towards men.

As a sexual minority it's even more concerning to me being caught in the middle of all of this. As was pointed out earlier, domestic violence in same sex relationships is high, the numbers I've seen run extremely high, although 1/3 of men in general having been abused in a relationship is alarming to say the least.

Take a look at the times article, it's probably the most disturbing indictment of feminism you'll ever read. Note that it wasn't their goal, just pointing out how incredibly callous and ignorant the movement has become.

The sense I get is that the time is definitely coming for a men's rights movement, you can definitely see in various parts of American society the frustration and anger at being treated as cannon fodder. And it's becoming easier and easier to find information about these sorts of issues.
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orcishgamer: I will get around to reading these. I can no longer find the name but there was an old feminist writer that was a dude, in the last 10 years or so he's been calling for a masculinist revolution (I'm not sure that's the term he uses), men are largely treated as disposable by society which is a throwback to old needs and really outmoded (essentially, you need a lot of uteruses to repopulate but a few penises will do).

He had a lot of interesting research like how young males are 5 times more likely to commit suicide, way more likely to go to prison, and will have seen death something like 10,000 times portrayed in the media by age 20, over 9000 of those deaths will have been of male characters.

The upshot is that he feels society is finally starting to value women but still treats men barbarically (a few alpha males rise to the top, but that's rather exclusive). If anyone has this fellow's name, I'd love to recall it. He's written a lot of books as I recall.
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hedwards: People forget that a significant number of early feminists were men. And that early on, particularly during the 60s, the movement was as much about bettering society for men as for women. The belief of the time was that there was an imbalance and that everybody was being harmed by it, definitely not just women.

During the late 70s and early 80s that was tossed from the movement and there was a lot more focus put on more material things and an increasingly hostile view towards men.

As a sexual minority it's even more concerning to me being caught in the middle of all of this. As was pointed out earlier, domestic violence in same sex relationships is high, the numbers I've seen run extremely high, although 1/3 of men in general having been abused in a relationship is alarming to say the least.

Take a look at the times article, it's probably the most disturbing indictment of feminism you'll ever read. Note that it wasn't their goal, just pointing out how incredibly callous and ignorant the movement has become.

The sense I get is that the time is definitely coming for a men's rights movement, you can definitely see in various parts of American society the frustration and anger at being treated as cannon fodder. And it's becoming easier and easier to find information about these sorts of issues.
Yeah I knew physical abuse rates and rape in male/male relationships are especially high. I always wondered if the external pressure and societal stress that gets unjustly heaped on such couples plays a role in that.

Men seem to be more common victims of financial abuse and some other odd forms of abuse. The part that really gets me is that the measurable differences in how men are treated in court extend especially in this area (not even counting that women perpetrators are far less likely to ever be prosecuted in the first place). They are way less likely to receive prison time in cases where other forms of punishment are available and way more likely to have sentences commuted down.

But again, that's assuming anyone even believes a man can be abused at all, it seems a lot of people really will maintain it's crying wolf when men claim it happens.

Just don't get me started on paternal rights, I'll really go off:)
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hedwards: USERNAME:predcon#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:159#Q&_^Q&Q#For the most part that's true, but sometimes it really happens.#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:159#Q&_^Q&Q#
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hedwards:
I always found it comical that Mr. Bobbit ended up apologizing to his (then ex) wife years after she cut off his manhood. Seriously, why was he apologizing? "He treated me bad and didn't wait for me to cum," was the sum total of her complaints about him. Even according to her he never hit her or threatened her or anything of that nature. Apparently she just thought he wasn't nice (and he probably wasn't, most people aren't all that nice to their spouses).

At any rate, the reason I replied is this is an excellent point that too often gets missed. Even at 1% the problem can't be ignored, and in reality the rates of abuse and rape are much higher than that.
Post edited April 21, 2011 by orcishgamer
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orcishgamer: I will get around to reading these. I can no longer find the name but there was an old feminist writer that was a dude, in the last 10 years or so he's been calling for a masculinist revolution (I'm not sure that's the term he uses), men are largely treated as disposable by society which is a throwback to old needs and really outmoded (essentially, you need a lot of uteruses to repopulate but a few penises will do).

He had a lot of interesting research like how young males are 5 times more likely to commit suicide, way more likely to go to prison, and will have seen death something like 10,000 times portrayed in the media by age 20, over 9000 of those deaths will have been of male characters.

The upshot is that he feels society is finally starting to value women but still treats men barbarically (a few alpha males rise to the top, but that's rather exclusive). If anyone has this fellow's name, I'd love to recall it. He's written a lot of books as I recall.
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hedwards: People forget that a significant number of early feminists were men. And that early on, particularly during the 60s, the movement was as much about bettering society for men as for women. The belief of the time was that there was an imbalance and that everybody was being harmed by it, definitely not just women.

During the late 70s and early 80s that was tossed from the movement and there was a lot more focus put on more material things and an increasingly hostile view towards men.

As a sexual minority it's even more concerning to me being caught in the middle of all of this. As was pointed out earlier, domestic violence in same sex relationships is high, the numbers I've seen run extremely high, although 1/3 of men in general having been abused in a relationship is alarming to say the least.

Take a look at the times article, it's probably the most disturbing indictment of feminism you'll ever read. Note that it wasn't their goal, just pointing out how incredibly callous and ignorant the movement has become.

The sense I get is that the time is definitely coming for a men's rights movement, you can definitely see in various parts of American society the frustration and anger at being treated as cannon fodder. And it's becoming easier and easier to find information about these sorts of issues.
I dunno if this counts but look at all the Sitcoms where they make light of the woman being wrong in some way(which leads to the man trying to defend himself verbally to his family and the wife to no avail usally) and in the end after no end of troubles(along with laughtracks where applicable) the man will usually "admit" their :wrongdoing" and how much of a cad THEY were and life will continue on as usual.

Basically it makes light of the fact that there's no way to make yourself seem to be right in matters if you're a man and the other party is a woman.
Post edited April 21, 2011 by GameRager
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hedwards: People forget that a significant number of early feminists were men. And that early on, particularly during the 60s, the movement was as much about bettering society for men as for women. The belief of the time was that there was an imbalance and that everybody was being harmed by it, definitely not just women.

During the late 70s and early 80s that was tossed from the movement and there was a lot more focus put on more material things and an increasingly hostile view towards men.

As a sexual minority it's even more concerning to me being caught in the middle of all of this. As was pointed out earlier, domestic violence in same sex relationships is high, the numbers I've seen run extremely high, although 1/3 of men in general having been abused in a relationship is alarming to say the least.

Take a look at the times article, it's probably the most disturbing indictment of feminism you'll ever read. Note that it wasn't their goal, just pointing out how incredibly callous and ignorant the movement has become.

The sense I get is that the time is definitely coming for a men's rights movement, you can definitely see in various parts of American society the frustration and anger at being treated as cannon fodder. And it's becoming easier and easier to find information about these sorts of issues.
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GameRager: I dunno if this counts but look at all the Sitcoms where they make light of the woman being wrong in some way(which leads to the man trying to defend himself verbally to his family and the wife to no avail usally) and in the end after no end of troubles(along with laughtracks where applicable) the man will usually "admit" their :wrongdoing" and how much of a cad THEY were and life will continue on as usual.

Basically it makes light of the fact that there's no way to make yourself seem to be right in matters if you're a man and the other party is a woman.
Actually sitcoms like Everybody Loves Raymond are part of the big criticism of the media portrayal of men. They're most often portrayed as bumbling asses, always married to a perfect woman who makes up for all their inadequacies, and if she's a bit of a bitch it's only because she has to tolerate being married to that loser.