It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
Faithful: [ At least Steam is up front about their DRM, but Stardock tries to sell itself as No DRM when Impulse is their DRM. You cannot update or download anything for your game apart from Impulse. Impulse is not an option, it is mandatory and thus is a form of DRM.

You may need to revise your descriptions a little bit. Impulse is Stardocks version of Steam although it isn't DRM in the sense of "What's DRM?" it is a content delivery system. It's as close as calling XP or Vista DRM laden because it keeps asking for the password every time you log on.
From what I can ascertain Stardock has not in themselves broken their bill of rights. Again, it depends on which side of the fence you sit on really or how emotioal people get over the issue http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/17/stardock_revises_gamer_bill_of_rights/
avatar
Faithful: [ At least Steam is up front about their DRM, but Stardock tries to sell itself as No DRM when Impulse is their DRM. You cannot update or download anything for your game apart from Impulse. Impulse is not an option, it is mandatory and thus is a form of DRM.
avatar
Clagg: You may need to revise your descriptions a little bit. Impulse is Stardocks version of Steam although it isn't DRM in the sense of "What's DRM?" it is a content delivery system. It's as close as calling XP or Vista DRM laden because it keeps asking for the password every time you log on.
From what I can ascertain Stardock has not in themselves broken their bill of rights. Again, it depends on which side of the fence you sit on really or how emotioal people get over the issue http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/17/stardock_revises_gamer_bill_of_rights/

I do believe Impulse is DRM (Digital Rights Management) it limits the users rights in that you are forced to use their delivery system, you cannot do anything to your game apart from this system and it is the system that is going to be use product-wide for all ongoing Stardock titles.
Regarding not breaking the Bill of Rights themselves; is rather funny. They develop the very basic rights that every gamer should have and then sell software that breaks it.
It is like calling stealing wrong while putting known thieves on the payroll and when the thief steals, saying we are clean, because we did not steal personally.
They have not contravened their Bill of Rights. You only need Impulse to get updates and/or DLC. The games themselves carry no copy protection on the disc and you can play them out of the box without having to register or activate them.
avatar
Coelocanth: They have not contravened their Bill of Rights. You only need Impulse to get updates and/or DLC. The games themselves carry no copy protection on the disc and you can play them out of the box without having to register or activate them.

Two points.
1. Yes you can play the game out of the box, but the game is never complete out of the box. Just look at Sins of a Solar Empire as an example. You could play an unfinished game out of the box, but if you want the latest and greatest patch you are forced to use Impulse.
2. To purport a standard (i.e. Gamers Bill of Rights) and then sell games that break that standard is in my book hypocrisy. As I said earlier it is all about the profit. If selling a game that carries SecuRom on it means making money then they will do it, and they are.
Stardock and SecuRom
You have to understand I was a staunch supporter of SD until Impulse and Brad made it clear on the boards he did not care what users thought, this was the route they were taking because it meant greater profits.
As a result I and another user spoke up which he made a great post that pointed out the inconsistency of Brad (using Brad's own words) were sanitized *removed* from the boards.
I even tried to get them to let me sell my account since you cannot sell your games and give the key to another person. At least this was my personal experience with SD.
Bottom line is you like SD, I use to. You still do I, do not, You have not seen the true colors, I believe I have.
EDIT: I am going to try not to talk about SD as it is hijacking this thread.
Post edited November 25, 2008 by Faithful
Sorry mate, but really, Impulse is NOT DRM you really have to understand that it's the same as Valves' Steam. Despite whatever you've heard from friends or from other forums reseach it yourself but don't take your info from forums or hippy websites that go all psycho over DRM isues, take it from the proper sources.
Your understanding of what Impulse and DRM is needs a little it of re-aranging.
I totally agree with you Faithful.
With Steam and Impulse you can't make an self-sufficient backup that's guaranteed to work now and in 10 or 20 years time. You have to activate the game every time you install it, which means you need an internet connection to communicate with a server you have no control over. You depend on a server that may not be there on 2015, Valve may have declared bankrupcy by that time, or be absorbed by a bigger company that discontinues the service.
I want to buy a product whose functionality depends solely on systems under my control. If my dvd drive dies, well I can't play my game, but I can buy a new one, but if the server that is supposed to let me play my game is no more, I can do nothing.
Basically what I want is to own the game in the same way I own a book or my car. If when I want to use my game, I have to ask permission to a Stardock's/Valve's server and they technically have the power to deny that permission (and they have it), then I don't own anything. This quotes from Steam Subscriber Agreement are quite self-explanatory:
----------
D. Ownership.
All title, ownership rights and intellectual property rights in and to the Steam Software and any and all copies thereof are owned by Valve and/or its licensors.
----------
13. TERM AND TERMINATION
Either you or Valve has the right to terminate or cancel your Account or a particular Subscription at any time. You understand and agree that the cancellation of your Account or a particular Subscription is your sole right and remedy with respect to any dispute with Valve.
----------
They can say it louder, not clearer.
So yes, for me Steam and Impulse are DRM. And even if some of you, don't want to include them in DRM family, you'll probably find this property issue... unsettling at best.
Post edited November 26, 2008 by canuter
canuter> Glad someone said it. :D
Faithful: don't get me wrong. I'm not a blind fanboi of Stardock. I'm waiting to see what happens with Impulse. Brad has said they're looking into some method of allowing people to be able to patch off-line. If they do that, then I'm still probably going to be on-board with SD and Impulse. If not, then I'll jump ship.
But I still don't agree that they've contravened their Bill of Rights. When you go out and buy Sins, you can load it onto your system and play it. No activation required (I did this when it first came out). You can also load it onto any other machine you own and play it. No issues.
Now, I know many people claim the game is not complete if they come out with a patch, but I don't agree. Unless there's some huge game-breaking issue, then it's complete. I'm not aware of anything like that with the base game of Sins. I'll happily be corrected if I'm wrong.
As I noted above though, I'm waiting to see what happens. If they release a game that has game-breaking issues, and you cannot get patches and patch you game off-line, then I'll say "Yep, DRM just like everything else" and I'll be done with them. But having to use Impulse to get patches for minor, non-game breaking issues, or additional content is fine and reasonable, IMO.
As for the SecuROM issue in your link, I'm aware of it, but it's a publishing agreement issue. Basically, the game publisher won't let Stardock sell the game without it. While, Brad could certainly tell them to take a flying leap, I don't think that's reasonable to expect. I think at least it's a good thing that they put it right there on the game description so you know what you're getting if you buy the game (unlike almost all retail game boxes where they don't tell you squat about the extra payload in the software).
So yeah, bottom line is I'm not convinced yet. I'm waiting to see what those true colors really are before I decide to abandon SD.
I'm in agreement of Coelocanth...the fact that they ARE warning customers about SecuROM protections on games that have them is a big thing. If they weren't doing that, I'd have a huge issue with it.
I also don't put Impulse in the same boat as Steam...with Steam, I HAVE to have it going to play my games. With Impulse, I only need it for updates and patches...which, really, is no different than having to download updates and patches for any other game in existence.
avatar
Coelocanth: Faithful: don't get me wrong. I'm not a blind fanboi of Stardock. I'm waiting to see what happens with Impulse. Brad has said they're looking into some method of allowing people to be able to patch off-line.

No worries man, I was not bothered at all. I simply took it we have differing opinions about SD and their business practices.
It would be good if they went back to stand alone patches, but according to Brad that is not going to happen as it costs more money then Impulse method of distributing patches.
I really hope I am wrong as I would once again install Sins and the other games I use to have from SD I could consider again (Gal Civ, Alterian Pro., Gal Civ II).
I am not expecting much, but one can hope.
I feel the same about EA and Bioware. I hope they will change their DRM methods but I hold out little hope for any real change.
Thanks for writing back, it all good!
:o)
I hold out very little hope for EA/BioWare (and I really, really, really was looking forward to Dragon Age) due to the comments I've seen from JR about DRM and his attitude towards the gaming population that's complaining about it.
avatar
Coelocanth: As for the SecuROM issue in your link, I'm aware of it, but it's a publishing agreement issue. Basically, the game publisher won't let Stardock sell the game without it. While, Brad could certainly tell them to take a flying leap, I don't think that's reasonable to expect. I think at least it's a good thing that they put it right there on the game description so you know what you're getting if you buy the game (unlike almost all retail game boxes where they don't tell you squat about the extra payload in the software).

Personally I'd rather they just not sold the game on there so as to maintain consistency of principles...having it on there, warning or not, is bound to make people confused and question....
Oh I'd love that, believe me. If any game containing SecuROM would just meet with refusal to even be sold, that would be ideal indeed.
I wish the Witcher did not contain any form of DRM.
If there is a SecuROM-laden game out there you absolutely HAVE to have, it's pretty easy to work around it. Buy a USED copy of it (so EA or whoever don't get a single penny of money from you), then download a cracked executable to run it with.