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General discussion (archive)The Witcher 2: update of our Geo-IP policy(282 posts)(282 posts)
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Posted December 23, 2011
GOG.com Implements Court-Required Changes; Uses Geo-IP to Determine Location for Witcher 2 Purchases

If you’ve been paying attention to news about the CD Projekt RED group, you’ve possibly heard that a French court made a judgement about a few things that were in dispute between CD Projekt RED and Namco Bandai Partners. Most of the decision doesn’t influence GOG.com, but one of the rulings from the court does: according to the findings of the court, the method that we have been using to determine what location a game purchaser is located at when they buy a copy of [url=http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/the_witcher_2]The Witcher 2 (and, as such, what version and price they are presented with) needs to be changed.

GOG.com has stated for a long time now that we believe that the best security is asking only for the minimum of information that we need to successfully transact business with our customers. Our opinion is still that including things like determining your location via Geo-IP, because there are several possible flaws with that system. However, in order to keep selling The Witcher 2, we will need to implement a Geo-IP based system for determining your location, per the orders of the court.

We will be implementing this system immediately; you will see that your local currency’s price is now featured on the product page when you visit it, based on your IP address. Since we've already announced the price for this game would be the same flat price everywhere during the Holiday Sale (which ends on January 2nd, 2012, at 23:59 EST Time), we’re not going to change the pricing for the Witcher 2 until this sale ends.

We remain committed to user privacy and keeping your information as safe and secure as we can. Further, while your profile’s location is, by order of the court, determined via Geo-IP when you purchase a copy of The Witcher 2, you can still set your country location for the forums as you would like, and your location doesn’t matter for buying any other games on GOG.com.

If you have already purchased your copy of the Witcher 2, we won’t be changing anything on your already-bought copy, just as if you had a boxed copy on a physical shelf instead of a virtual box on your GOG.com shelf.

If you have any questions about this, please feel free to ask it the comments below, or (if you’re a journalist) drop us an email and we’ll get back to you as soon as we can.
Posted January 10, 2012
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FlyByU: I guess Americans don't go by rulings of other countries because most would violate our Constitutional Rights. However if a company is going to enforce the ruling outside the States I guess we have to accept it or not use the services of said provider.
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lukaszthegreat: Of course you have to abide the rulings of other countries courts!
If you do not you will get fined, restriction on your business practices can be set up.
What I am trying to bring out is. If they go back to court say in Poland and it rules different then the French court what then who would they go with the Poles or the French court.
Posted January 10, 2012
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FlyByU: What I am trying to bring out is. If they go back to court say in Poland and it rules different then the French court what then who would they go with the Poles or the French court.
How can they go back to court?
Namco sued CDPR for contract dispute. CDPR lost.
CDPR can sue Namco in Polish court for something else or Namco can sue CDPR in Polish court for something else also but that mater is settled and there is no going back.

The court's decision is contract-wide. It is valid worldwide the same way the contract between CDPR and Namco is valid worlwide (only PAL region but not Poland, Russia and North America)
If the contract was relevant only to French territories then they could not demand the geoIPlocation thingy as it would be not relevant to their businesses.
Posted January 11, 2012
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FlyByU: What I am trying to bring out is. If they go back to court say in Poland and it rules different then the French court what then who would they go with the Poles or the French court.
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lukaszthegreat: How can they go back to court?
Namco sued CDPR for contract dispute. CDPR lost.
CDPR can sue Namco in Polish court for something else or Namco can sue CDPR in Polish court for something else also but that mater is settled and there is no going back.

The court's decision is contract-wide. It is valid worldwide the same way the contract between CDPR and Namco is valid worlwide (only PAL region but not Poland, Russia and North America)
If the contract was relevant only to French territories then they could not demand the geoIPlocation thingy as it would be not relevant to their businesses.
Or CDPR can stop selling games to the French and avoid it completely. It is a French ruling and only apply s to France not the world.

If they were sued in America it would only apply to America not the world so it is the same for France.

How can a foreign Court override another countries laws rights of citizens? They cannot . This court ruling violates my right to privacy. I don't think it is allowed to force a company to violate others rights because it wants the French to not have it or the world as far as that is concerned.
Post edited January 11, 2012 by FlyByU
Posted January 11, 2012
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FlyByU: Or CDPR can stop selling games to the French and avoid it completely. It is a French ruling and only apply s to France not the world.

If they were sued in America it would only apply to America not the world so it is the same for France.
NO. again. it applies towards the contract.
not only france
not only america.

it was never about France. it was about the contract between CDPR and Namco. it wasn't about selling in france.

if it was sued in America (for example if Atari sued CDPR) it would apply to NA only not the world as the contract between CDPR and Atari involves distribution of TW2 in NA only.
but namco contract involves distribution of game in PAL region (which is most of the world) but not Poland or Russia (and I assume also Belarus, Ukraine aka other places where 1C sells their games)

It is not where court is located. it is what contract is about. and contract is mostly worldwide
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FlyByU: How can a foreign Court override another countries laws rights of citizens? They cannot . This court ruling violates my right to privacy. I don't think it is allowed to force a company to violate others rights because it wants the French to not have it or the world as far as that is concerned.
nobody is violating anything here. GOG has right to gather your IP data (everyone does that. as a mod on anime forum i could see everyone IPs without much trouble)
so please explain?
Post edited January 11, 2012 by lukaszthegreat
Posted January 11, 2012
FlyByU, it would make no sense that Namco would have to go on a world tour suing CDP in every applicable country.
Posted January 11, 2012
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Kabuto: FlyByU, it would make no sense that Namco would have to go on a world tour suing CDP in every applicable country.
It does to me. I don't nor will I ever go by any court ruling but from an American court. I am surprised that you all think it fine that a foreign court would be allowed to affect your country and you. I am sure if our courts ruled that it is illegal for abortion world wide non of the countries would enforce it.
Posted January 11, 2012
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Kabuto: FlyByU, it would make no sense that Namco would have to go on a world tour suing CDP in every applicable country.
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FlyByU: It does to me. I don't nor will I ever go by any court ruling but from an American court. I am surprised that you all think it fine that a foreign court would be allowed to affect your country and you. I am sure if our courts ruled that it is illegal for abortion world wide non of the countries would enforce it.
That's the way corporate law goes though Fly.......whatever ruling is made is made in the country they are HQ'd in and it then applies in all countries they do business in......if you read a game's EULA it says you are bound by the law of wherever their HQ is not, where you live, and you agree to it(in a way) by clicking I agree.

It's all part of international commercial law afaik.

Think of it this way: The company uses france's courts to settle the dispute, and then the company(acting as a country/entity of sorts) passes that decision down to all it's customers/partners(citizens) regardless of where they live.
Post edited January 11, 2012 by GameRager
Posted January 11, 2012
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FlyByU: It does to me. I don't nor will I ever go by any court ruling but from an American court. I am surprised that you all think it fine that a foreign court would be allowed to affect your country and you.
but it is okay for foreign company to affect you? I mean GOG is affect you right this moment. Takes your American money, issues you games and can take them away anytime they want. That's okay then?


anyhow. you will go by the ruling of a foreign court if you want to make business outside of USA. If you import/export you might get sued outside USA and if you lose then you will either pay the fines or USA government will force you to pay them by blocking your accounts (and even possibly a jail time)
you think that the ruling of french court has anything to do with TW2 being sold in France. That is not the case and please do not ignore me (as i said it few times already) it is ruling about the contract between two parties.
I am sure if our courts ruled that it is illegal for abortion world wide non of the countries would enforce it.
but that has nothing to do with the issue here. The courts do not have jurisdiction over other countires. Neither does the French court.
Posted January 11, 2012
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Kabuto: FlyByU, it would make no sense that Namco would have to go on a world tour suing CDP in every applicable country.
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FlyByU: It does to me. I don't nor will I ever go by any court ruling but from an American court. I am surprised that you all think it fine that a foreign court would be allowed to affect your country and you. I am sure if our courts ruled that it is illegal for abortion world wide non of the countries would enforce it.
This elitist United States Of America is king attitude really has to stop. As many others have said, the french court ruled on the contract itself which covers all appropriate regions. It was not a France specific issue.

I know it's not just you. Barack Obama thinks just like you. Screw everyone else because America is king. But we'll gladly import millions upon millions of barrels from you Canada while no longer allowing you to bid for contracts to supply American companies with raw materials.
Post edited January 11, 2012 by Kabuto
Posted January 11, 2012
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LOL Kabuto...

Obama has destroyed this country and the congressmen that voted for his crap. Obama is Anti-Constitution Pro Communism so he would fit in with you Canadians much better then he fits in here. Him thinking America is the best is a load of crap. He thinks Kenya his country of birth is best.
Posted January 11, 2012
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FlyByU: LOL Kabuto...

Obama has destroyed this country and the congressmen that voted for his crap. Obama is Anti-Constitution Pro Communism so he would fit in with you Canadians much better then he fits in here. Him thinking America is the best is a load of crap. He thinks Kenya his country of birth is best.
He wasn't born in Keya but Hawaii.....also he isn't pro communism. Please stop spouting that ignorant birther/tea party crap please.
Posted January 11, 2012
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FlyByU: It does to me. I don't nor will I ever go by any court ruling but from an American court. I am surprised that you all think it fine that a foreign court would be allowed to affect your country and you. I am sure if our courts ruled that it is illegal for abortion world wide non of the countries would enforce it.
It's important to realize the distinction between contracts and other forms of court rulings. Contracts typically stipulate a jurisdiction that all parties agree to if there are any disputes. The contract between CDPR and Namco likely stipulated that French courts would have jurisdiction over any disputes, and thus the result we've seen. Now, CDPR could still just tear up that contract and completely pull out of any business operations they have going in France and then there would be very little French courts could do to them (although this would then create far bigger problems that they'd have to deal with). Basically what it comes down to is that are a fairly limited set of conditions through which courts in one country can affect people and businesses in other countries: 1) you agree to give them jurisdiction and to abide by their decisions (e.g. through contracts, like what happened in this case) 2) you have business operations in the country that the court has jurisdiction in that they can do things to, or you yourself go to that country for some reason 3) the government in your own country has some form of treaty with a foreign country which stipulates that they will enforce certain types of court decisions from that country.
Posted January 11, 2012
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FlyByU: LOL Kabuto...

Obama has destroyed this country and the congressmen that voted for his crap. Obama is Anti-Constitution Pro Communism so he would fit in with you Canadians much better then he fits in here. Him thinking America is the best is a load of crap. He thinks Kenya his country of birth is best.
Let me guess, you get your news from those guys who don't know how the tides work.
Posted January 11, 2012
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spindown: those guys who don't know how the tides work.
Food comes in, poop comes out; you can't explain that.
Posted January 11, 2012
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FlyByU: Or CDPR can stop selling games to the French and avoid it completely. It is a French ruling and only apply s to France not the world.
Even if that were the case, which it's not, how would you propose that they identify French users to filter them without geo ip tracking? You still end up having to do what everyone is getting upset about anyway.
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General discussion (archive)The Witcher 2: update of our Geo-IP policy(282 posts)(282 posts)
(282 posts)