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General discussion (archive)The less socially agile (i.e. people like us)(68 posts)(68 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 04, 2009
OK, this ended up as a ridiculous hijack of Aliasalpha's thread, so I've decided not to inflict it on him and to instead give it its own topic. It's probably TL;DR (hard to tell in this tiny window), but maybe someone will read it and weigh in.
those socially less agile (i.e. people like us)

Honestly? I think this is a myth, though of course I can only speak for myself. I believed it for a long time, and perhaps it was true once, but upon taking a step back and observing myself, it definitely isn't now: I can hold my own in a conversation with anybody who's willing to actually have one, I have no problem speaking my mind, and I can even disagree with people's base beliefs without them feeling attacked. I think that's fairly agile, and while the internet and real life are not the same thing, I see a lot of these traits in people here.
Contrary to how it may look, most 'normal' people are surprisingly socially inept. They almost never make connections with one another - most of their 'main event' socialising consists of getting as wasted as possible, which helps them gather stories they can tell to one another. That's it. That's what passes for social interaction. It's the most simple process imaginable, and I flatly refuse to believe that anybody 'like us' couldn't pull it off if they wanted to.
Of course, despite my "wait, I actually interact pretty well" epiphany, I still have little to no social life - but I now take the rather arrogant stance that this is not because I'm somehow 'faulty,' but because most 'normal' people are lazy, weak and, frankly, boring. Theirs is the path of least resistance, and I refuse to label myself as somehow 'antisocial' because of this. That is an easy, common mistake to make.
The irony is that I am pretty much miserable pretty much all of the time, so I'm not actually going to give any advice on how to cheer up, because it's a skill I haven't mastered at all. But hopefully I can stop a few people (including AA?) from buying into this myth. I know first-hand that it can lead to completely misplaced self-loathing.
Okay, meandering off-topic ramble ends here, otherwise I'll start going on about 'pseudohedonism,' and breaking my 'stop abusing quotemarks' promise into even more tiny little pieces.
Posted August 04, 2009
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frostcircus: ...but I now take the rather arrogant stance that this is not because I'm somehow 'faulty,' but because most 'normal' people are lazy, weak and, frankly, boring. Theirs is the path of least resistance, and I refuse to label myself as somehow 'antisocial' because of this...

I hate using a double plus followed by the word 'this', but the small chunk above from your post I easily agree too.
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on&off topic somewhat here for my usual anecdote.
I'm told I'm antisocial because I don't; drink, smoke, gamble or have any interest in sports. Apparently that is so 'UnAustralian' and I'm surprised I've not been booted out of the country by now.
But slowly over time I found people with the few interests (and dis-interests) I had, and now travel over 90 minutes each way once per month for a small gathering and feast in the CBD. We don't agree on everything, and I think that's a good thing, because I would not want to hang around with clones of myself.
Posted August 04, 2009
Getting wasted is still a good way to socialize. I still do it - and some of the best mates of my student years were discovered during heavy drinking bilges.
Then again, in Norway this is the norm. "Everybody" is on the flask to some extent here. It is -extremely- hard to go out and expect to really have fun or fit in properly without consuming at least enough alcohol to get you tipsy.
Heck, in the entire Scandinavia this is the norm. I'd assume around 75% of youths have their first drinking bilge before 15 years of age. At least 90% consume alcohol regularly before they're 18. Meaning obtaining alcohol from someone older they know and pouring it down until they're lying folded neatly around the big white telephone making angry rhino noises.
From there on the stage is set and it doesn't end until you;
A) Have kids and / or get married.
B) Turn 35.
Posted August 04, 2009
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Ois: on&off topic somewhat here for my usual anecdote.
I'm told I'm antisocial because I don't; drink, smoke, gamble or have any interest in sports. Apparently that is so 'UnAustralian' and I'm surprised I've not been booted out of the country by now.

The odd Alcoholic Beverage is Fine once in a Blue Moon (Not Beer), Smoking I Don't Get - though i think it's made to get you.
Gambling on Video games I've Done, after having the Opportunity to do it in Real Life i never even went through $15, Bored me Very Quickly
Sports are Fine with me - But to sit and Watch them Never.
Posted August 04, 2009
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stonebro: Then again, in Norway this is the norm. "Everybody" is on the flask to some extent here.

Yeah, it's bloody depressing, TBH. Whenever drinking culture comes up, I feel ashamed of being a Norwegian.
Posted August 04, 2009
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Ois: I'm told I'm antisocial because I don't; drink, smoke, gamble or have any interest in sports. Apparently that is so 'UnAustralian' and I'm surprised I've not been booted out of the country by now.

I always wondered whether branding a person, thing or activity as befitting or unbefitting its nationality was just an American thing ("American" vs. "Un-American"). :p
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frostcircus: Contrary to how it may look, most 'normal' people are surprisingly socially inept. They almost never make connections with one another - most of their 'main event' socialising consists of getting as wasted as possible, which helps them gather stories they can tell to one another. That's it. That's what passes for social interaction. It's the most simple process imaginable, and I flatly refuse to believe that anybody 'like us' couldn't pull it off if they wanted to.

This is a good point; most of what passes for social behavior is really pretty shallow. I'm also reminded of my friend's idiot roommate, who brings home a different trashy girl every few days, and can't understand why my friend doesn't want any help racking up some one-night stands.
Then there are the people who have 874 "friends" on MySpace or Facebook. Nobody really knows that many people. If you asked me to name 874 people I've met even once in my lifetime, I couldn't even come close. Most of the people in that list are likely friends of friends of friends, people they never talk to and never will, and whose names they might have heard once but don't remember.
I don't think I'm antisocial. I do enjoy peace, quiet and solitude more than most people seem to; I spend a lot of time in my own head, and although I enjoy doing things with my friends, I really need a lot of personal time as well to keep my sanity. I also tend to be nervous about meeting new people, and tend to avoid that if I can. So, in that sense, I'm less of a social creature than some people.
However, I do have friends (as much as anybody does). I don't have very many friends, but those I do have, I've known for a good while and am comfortable with, having met most of them in school or in college. Unfortunately I don't live in the same town as any of my friends anymore, so I don't really see them much, but we keep in touch.
I've had a lot of acquaintances who have pretty much blown me off. They never want to talk to me if I call them, they never answer my emails (or if they do, it's a one or two-sentence reply followed by "ttyl :)"), they never want to do anything (even by my reclusive standards), and they certainly never make any effort whatsoever to contact me first. Eventually, I just give up on people like that - I'm not going to take up the sole responsibility for maintaining a relationship that I'm not getting anything out of. What the hell good does that do me? And I'm the antisocial one?
Post edited August 04, 2009 by Mentalepsy
Posted August 04, 2009
Oh, the drinking culture is very much the norm here too. And I too have taken part to a certain extent. Personally, I have nothing against it*, but I have a lot against the way it's held as the be all and end all of socialising. I think it's very unhealthy to do that, and it frustrates me. But I also realise it's human nature to normalise something and then attack anything that's different to it, so I'm not going to tilt at windmills by calling for change because I know it will not happen. I do take some solace in the way it drops off as people get older. It's nice to know that there's a decent chance I will be less frustrated as the years pass.
And of course it's also human nature for those on the outside to feel jealous of those on the inside - I definitely have a lot of moments where I envy how easy their lives seem, and how much more they seem to enjoy them. But then I think about the specifics, and realise that I'm not missing out on anything I actually want.
*I considered putting a disclaimer that deconstruction isn't denunciation - when I pick stuff apart it's just to try and see how it works, not to insult it)
Post edited August 04, 2009 by frostcircus
Posted August 04, 2009
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Ois: I'm told I'm antisocial because I don't; drink, smoke, gamble or have any interest in sports. Apparently that is so 'UnAustralian' and I'm surprised I've not been booted out of the country by now.
But slowly over time I found people with the few interests (and dis-interests) I had, and now travel over 90 minutes each way once per month for a small gathering and feast in the CBD. We don't agree on everything, and I think that's a good thing, because I would not want to hang around with clones of myself.

Same here. TBH I have only a few of REAL friends. Many of the "friends" I had knew me only when they needed something from me, so I have abandoned them (if there was something to abandon) and I keep only a few friends, who act like friends. I've even managed to get one of them here to GOG, but he is inactive (on forums, that is) anyways.
Posted August 04, 2009
I totally concur with the title of the thread, at least so far as to include me in the "us" group. I am "less socially agile" while sober, and become a bit more normal when under the influence of a few beers.
Posted August 04, 2009
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frostcircus: And of course it's also human nature for those on the outside to feel jealous of those on the inside - I definitely have a lot of moments where I envy how easy their lives seem, and how much more they seem to enjoy them. But then I think about the specifics, and realise that I'm not missing out on anything I actually want.

That really reminds me of something from the simpsons, the episode where lisa was afraid she was going to end up as stupid as her father and was wistfully looking out the window at ralph playing with the flag on the letterbox
Posted August 04, 2009
I'm just nervous, but I still function alright socially. I'm not perfect, sure. I stutter and stammer nervously, but that's about it.
Another thing I can't do is look at someone directly in the eyes, old people tend to do that when they talk to me, which is annoying.
Posted August 04, 2009
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TheJoe: Another thing I can't do is look at someone directly in the eyes, old people tend to do that when they talk to me, which is annoying.

Well, this jogs my memory and makes me realise that yes, I once did have certain weaknesses - this was definitely a big one of them. Huge actually, and I am not sure how or when it went away. I do remember reading an article about it in WikiHow's communication section (which is overall an interesting read), but there's a good chance that was after I'd dealt with it. I also have memories of seeking out life-sized photos to see if they helped. Seems strange that I don't remember the chronology at all. Some advice I know I read, and still use, is to focus on one eye, or even the bridge of their nose.
It's lucky, too; earlier this year I went along to an acting workshop, and within the first five minutes the guy had us doing neutrality exercises that involved pairing up with a total stranger, making eye contact across the room, maintaining it unflinchingly as we walked to stand nose to nose, and then following even more directions. It was like two minutes of unbroken contact at a time, and I remember thinking how this was a record, and that I'd definitely overcome the problem.
I'm trying to think of a way to harness the trial-by-fire nature of that situation to help you with it. Can't though. And personally, it's not a huge deal - I'm not bothered when I talk to somehow who doesn't make much eye contact. Supposedly it makes them appear snobbish or dismissive, but I don't get that from it at all.
Still, being past it is surprisingly freeing, so for what it's worth I can at least say it's possible to get past it.
Posted August 04, 2009
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TheJoe: I'm just nervous, but I still function alright socially. I'm not perfect, sure. I stutter and stammer nervously, but that's about it.
Another thing I can't do is look at someone directly in the eyes, old people tend to do that when they talk to me, which is annoying.

You could get over it by pretending it's a game and stare at people until they get uncomfortable enough to look away and then silently declare yourself the winner. Of course that probably wouldn't help you socially...
Posted August 04, 2009
I skim read some kind of self help / career book in a bookshop a few weeks back. Can't remember the exact name, but it was something like "the introvert's guide to life/work".
While i'm not a big fan of that kind of book, it did make some interesting points about how introverted people are often overlooked in favor of extroverted people, and how introverts can take their strengths (of which they have just as many as extroverts) and capitalise on those.
For one thing, introverts tend to overthink everything...
Posted August 04, 2009
Okay this thread is starting to shit me, its just not accepting my bloody posts. I mean sure its got a certain wall of text feel to it but you wouldn't expect the bloody forum to say TL:DR! I'll try adding it as an edit to this post, assuming THIS one is recorded
Nope, didn't work either. Is there a problem with quoting the same post several times? I broke down the post into elements and responded individually. I'll try to post one last time as a flat wall of text with only the post I'm replying to quoted
Post edited August 04, 2009 by Aliasalpha
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)The less socially agile (i.e. people like us)(68 posts)(68 posts)
(68 posts)