It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Community
General discussion (archive)The indie "bubble"(29 posts)(29 posts)
(29 posts)
Pages:
1
2
This is my favourite topic
Posted May 25, 2014
Saw a link to this over at gamebanshee.

http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.de/2014/05/the-indie-bubble-is-popping.html

Seems to be true, something is going to happen. As the video game industry is now few wins.

I am not trying to bash indies but it is too many of them. Some games that actually are good gets forgotten and the people behind them stops making games. The one thing I think is most sad is the games that never get recognition or the games that never get made because of the lack of fuel.
No matter how much the big companys sell they won't get enough money out of it. The indie developer doesn't get anything either because in many peoples eyes a game isn't worth more than a buck no matter how much work has been put in it. In between these two groups are many companies who try to get by, some get bought and some just throw out games that nobody plays but make enough to create another one like that.

Sorry for the rant, he said many similar things but I just needed to vent this.

I'm not bitter over this or that sad. it is only games after all. But I think what is happening now is tedious. It was better before. So many different games came out, sure some was crap but there also were real gems. Many games today are really good to but it is so many games overall that you wonät see many of them.

Maybe I've got it all wrong, feel free to comment why.

(Edit: Spelling)
Post edited May 25, 2014 by Kennethor
Posted May 25, 2014
People (so called true, garage sort indies) will always continue making huge mods and games. Some will be crap and some will actually be brilliant and making even money.

While most will do doubt remain more or less obscure, there will still be plenty which actually bring food on the table for the developer(s) - and for many that is enough.

----

My point is - AAA companies will not start taking risks, thus there is ALWAYS room for unique, experimental and "unprofitable looking" games. Games for niche market. AAA's will not make these. Ever. They will always aim for the big audience.

Thus, indies will never die.

...i would however be more than glad if for example Steam would have -some- quality control of what they accept and what not. Its going the android route atm and on long term that is not going to be good for anyone.
Posted May 25, 2014
its been this way for a while now....I guess saturation point is close.like you said there's lots of indie games, which is great for customers but problem is, there's too many generic ones IMHO.and with all the competition you also have all the indie bundles out there pushing the price expectations for customer down to a ridiculous level where only a small no. of devs make really make a decent living.....
Posted May 25, 2014
The only problem I see in this "bubble" is that the good indies are getting ripped off by the bad ones. We all know that most of us look at the price first and then at the gameplay. Personally, I just try to buy the same game from many sources when I like a game and I can and afford.

This thing also happened in the music industry because of the streaming services - so much music and so hard to be reckoned.
Posted May 25, 2014
avatar
OlivawR: The only problem I see in this "bubble" is that the good indies are getting ripped off by the bad ones.
Yeah, so many promising developers seem to have gone under.

I think it's great that indie games exist, the big companys are stuck in same old tracks exept for a few. But it is so hard to become a big company now. Cdpr has managed to become big and Mojang as examples but there are few fresh winds in the industry. Same old big developers and thousands of smaller ones.
Posted May 25, 2014
First of all, let me just say I'm not reading Jeff Vogel's post. The guy is a self-entitled douche who recognizes his games are ugly as hell but won't learn to program better graphics or hire someone who can just because he's too lazy, so I don't care about whatever he may have to say about the video game industry, particularly the "popping of the indie bubble". He made a whole lot of money from his games, which are as indie as it gets, so reading through all of his post, masochism aside, would feel like reading the statement of a hypocrite.

I don't know what's so wrong about the indie scene in video games. Sure, there are a lot of clones and bad games, and it doesn't help that every person is releasing their own game. But this always happened. There are always more bad than good games. I always had to browse for the games I wanted to play, because most of the games that are released are crap. Indies are no exception.

If you're into the indie gaming scene, you know, by now, where to go to filter your search. There are loads and loads of websites dedicated to the indie community, and they are on the lookout for some indie gems, so users don't have to sit through appalling games until they find one that suits them. You can usually count on GOG, as well, I trust the indies they release, and I've been pleasantly surprised by some of the latest indie releases in here.

Vogel (obviously) says we should not blame Steam. Well, I, for one, blame Steam. They have no quality control whatsoever, they release everything, and that's what makes it look like the "indie bubble" is popping. Fortunately, Steam doesn't equal PC gaming, and I couldn't care less about the flood of bad indies on Steam. I expect nothing good from big studio developers and publishers, those guys lost their creativity and ingenuity a long, long time ago. So, all that's left, for me, is the indie scene. Granted, they are mostly crap, but if you know where to look, if you go to some indie community blogs and if you don't just buy every indie title that comes up on Steam, just because it's a cheap indie game, then, well, you're in for a ride. Indies aren't going anywhere, and I sure am glad about that.
Posted May 25, 2014
avatar
groze: First of all, let me just say I'm not reading Jeff Vogel's post. The guy is a self-entitled douche who recognizes his games are ugly as hell but won't learn to program better graphics or hire someone who can just because he's too lazy, so I don't care about whatever he may have to say about the video game industry, particularly the "popping of the indie bubble". He made a whole lot of money from his games, which are as indie as it gets, so reading through all of his post, masochism aside, would feel like reading the statement of a hypocrite.

I don't know what's so wrong about the indie scene in video games. Sure, there are a lot of clones and bad games, and it doesn't help that every person is releasing their own game. But this always happened. There are always more bad than good games. I always had to browse for the games I wanted to play, because most of the games that are released are crap. Indies are no exception.

If you're into the indie gaming scene, you know, by now, where to go to filter your search. There are loads and loads of websites dedicated to the indie community, and they are on the lookout for some indie gems, so users don't have to sit through appalling games until they find one that suits them. You can usually count on GOG, as well, I trust the indies they release, and I've been pleasantly surprised by some of the latest indie releases in here.

Vogel (obviously) says we should not blame Steam. Well, I, for one, blame Steam. They have no quality control whatsoever, they release everything, and that's what makes it look like the "indie bubble" is popping. Fortunately, Steam doesn't equal PC gaming, and I couldn't care less about the flood of bad indies on Steam. I expect nothing good from big studio developers and publishers, those guys lost their creativity and ingenuity a long, long time ago. So, all that's left, for me, is the indie scene. Granted, they are mostly crap, but if you know where to look, if you go to some indie community blogs and if you don't just buy every indie title that comes up on Steam, just because it's a cheap indie game, then, well, you're in for a ride. Indies aren't going anywhere, and I sure am glad about that.
I don't know why he would be a douche for not caring about graphics but I don't care about Vogel. He does make some points though and I think he knows something about the business.

The problem as I see it is that we have many small games with limited budgets but great potential and a lot of big games with huge budgets but no potential for greatness. There are some in between that stand out but they are sqeezed in between.

I don't have time or money to find a indie game that isn't crap. There are simply too many, I see that as a problem. Of course you can download games for free and try them but that is not a viable option.

I agree that steam is troubling but they are a big deal of the pc market. Many publishers choose steam over gog or other alternatives and that is troubling.

I love indie games and of course they aren't gojng to dissapear but we need more different types of developers, more variety. Only indies would suck, even if it would be better than only aaa games.
Posted May 25, 2014
A thriving business gets more competition and only the best/luckiest ones will get on top of it. Is that what he's saying? How is it a problem?
Posted May 25, 2014
A bubble implies an excess of capital. I don't see how that relates to one or two dudes making the game of their dreams in a basement.
Posted May 25, 2014
That's the problem, it's not the best one who is winning. Sure, it's good for consumer, with all these bundles and small prices from 10 games 1 will be good, but that one will get same share as the other 9. Some even will get more than they deserve and I could give examples, but I don't want to start a flamewar so it's better to talk in general terms.
Posted May 25, 2014
avatar
Fenixp: A thriving business gets more competition and only the best/luckiest ones will get on top of it. Is that what he's saying?
Sadly he's not. He's just saying that the status quo is not sustainable. And he also says that actually everyone's aware of that. So, DOUBLE DUH!

I for one think that the video game industry would only benefit from some good old darwinism.

Oh, and no, it's not a bubble (that's the point where the guy is wrong). It were a bubble if the big players and the whole industry were threatened but that's not the case. It's the bottom feeders (who already are neither particularly successful on average or important) who will bite the dust. The change this guy is talking about will not be some huge burst, I think the situation will just stabilize itself and the players will mainly notice more sensible prices and possibly fewer releases over time.
Post edited May 25, 2014 by F4LL0UT
Posted May 25, 2014
Reread the article and he does make some valid points.None of it is really sustainable in the longrun.
Posted May 25, 2014
I read that a while ago and I agree on numerous points. With how easy it is to make games and how many people are making them, for a variety of reasons, we're flooded with good games that may never do that well.

But at the same time, let people follow their dreams as long as they can still earn enough to survive (and support their families if they have them). They may have to adjust their dreams a bit (and learn from mistakes), but let them find satisfaction how they want, and don't be unnecessarily negative.
Posted May 28, 2014
avatar
groze: First of all, let me just say I'm not reading Jeff Vogel's post. The guy is a self-entitled douche who recognizes his games are ugly as hell but won't learn to program better graphics or hire someone who can just because he's too lazy, so I don't care about whatever he may have to say about the video game industry
avatar
Kennethor: I don't know why he would be a douche for not caring about graphics
Yeah, I don't agree with groze here; we don't know how much money he actually makes and whether it would be enough to hire good artists, and just because your games are not the best looking on the market doesn't make your opinions on the market invalid. But ...

I find it strange that he would call Supergiant Games an "established" company "loved by journalists". They are mostly known for one game only, but guess what, that game was original, it had a unique, consistent and attractive art style, a soundtrack, voiceovers etc. That company is "established" because it managed to create a polished game of high quality that has both good gameplay and eye candy and really stood out among others, not because it's "loved by journalists". Who knows how "established" and "loved by journalists" Vogel's games would be if they were on the same level of professionalism, overall quality and originality. I'm not saying they're bad games, they're actually very nice for what they are, I'm not saying that one-man-teams with low budget shouldn't make games, they definitely should if they have the passion for it like Vogel. But he should be able to admit that he just isn't able to compete and play in the same league as a team like Supergiant Games, regarding the final product, no matter how much love and care he puts into his games on his own.
Post edited May 28, 2014 by Leroux
Posted May 28, 2014
That is because people thinks that they can make a decent profit from the first or second "Good" games they released.

In the over saturated market, to be successful an Indie have to release a string of good games over the years, building up their fan base and reputation. They also have to be actively connected to their fans via social media and each game release will have a cut scene / video promoting their next game, so people who enjoyed their current game will look forward to their next game bringing more fans.

Just like every business the chance of you being successful the first few years you start the business is very small. More often than not you will operate at a loss before building up customers and reputation.

The chance to be very successful in the first year of starting your business is akin of striking the lottery.

Take for example this dev called matt. He create a string of good games and are FREE to play WITHOUT MICRO TRANSACTION to build up his reputation and loyal fan base.

When he release on of his games on steam, I had to break my rule of buying games from steam and buy it without waiting for discount to support him.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/265610/

If you see the review section, from all 138 review, only 1 review is not recommended, which is quite rare to see in steam.

That attest to his popularity and game quality.

Hence indie that can survive is indie that is here to stay instead of wanting to make money quickly. I know that they want to earn enough to become self sufficient, but like any other business, hoping to turn a profit with the first good game will mostly get them disappointed.

Like all other writer / artist, those that become successful often published quite a number of unknown great works and only get recognize much later after a string of good works. Some even after death only their works are recognized.
http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-people-who-became-famous-after-death.php
Pages:
1
2
This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)The indie "bubble"(29 posts)(29 posts)
(29 posts)