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General discussion (archive)The Great Nations GOG Giveaway #5 - Special Festive Edition.(63 posts)(63 posts)
(63 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 13, 2014
Congrats to the {NumberOfWinners==2} winners - {TheLuckyPeople==babark;DeMignon} and thanks, as previously mentioned, to {TheGiveawayPerson==ddickinson} (for a very nice and interesting GA). :)
Posted December 13, 2014
In for Din's Curse expansion, DIN'S CURSE: DEMON WAR. I have base game, but can not respec without expansion. oh noes!

I watch groundhog day all christmas. Pretty sure I just won. gg no re
Posted December 13, 2014
Congrats to the winners and thanks to dd for this educational giveaway (true edutainment), I learned a lot of things I didn't know yet, quite interesting to see how the same traditions show up in slight variations and on slightly different dates depending on the country. Very much along the lines of there is nothing new under the sun but it comes in a lot of interesting variations.
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FearfulSymmetry: In the Netherlands, we have this can of worms called 'Sinterklaas' on the fifth of December. It used to be all jolly and good - a feast mostly for children, although adults celebrate it as well. An old guy with a beard and a robe shows up from Spain bearing gifts. So far, so good. However, he has these helpers called Black Pete, and for the past few years, there have been huge discussions about whether Black Pete is racist or not, and whether he needs to change. As for me, I feel that some changes are definitely in order, but mention that to most Dutch people and they'll go ballistic. Either way, the discussion has sucked most of the joy out of the event, and I've just stopped celebrating it altogether. It's especially alarming to see how riled up people get over this discussion. There's even been violence.

Edit: this is not exactly positive, sorry about that. Just thought about it because it's a pretty big thing in the Netherlands, and the discussion over it has gotten really heated, so I guess it's at the forefront of my mind. :P Don't let me spoil the fun.
I just saw that in the newspaper the other day and I didn't know about this variation of Santa goon, at all. I just knew the Swiss Schmutzli / German Knecht Ruprecht variety but the Dutch ones look a lot different, I can see how it could be interpreted as racism although I personally just see that as old school caricature that isn't sanitized to modern sensibilities. If you want to start labeling that as racism then every single black person in the Tintin comics is a racist depiction as well. of course the comics can't (and shall not) be changed ever, as for the Black Pete costumes I see them as fairly harmless. A caricature can in terms of design not actually be racist, it's just exaggerated shapes forms and colors. For draftsmen/painters/sculptors this is common sense. It only becomes racist via context, e.g. if the caricature depicts a demeaning situation. As long as the Black Pete's aren't hung up on trees or set on fire but instead run around in colorful costumes with smiles on their faces I see no problem with it.

One can of course interpret anything as racism nowadays if you try hard enough, even washing detergent adverts:
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so-rascist.jpg (21 Kb)
Post edited December 13, 2014 by awalterj
Posted December 13, 2014
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awalterj: One can of course interpret anything as racism nowadays if you try hard enough, even washing detergent adverts:
That is so true, it's getting so silly, or more fittingly, stupid, what people find to complain about now. We had an advert in the UK about a milk being purified to give a better taste. It had a black and white cow that had all the black spots cleaned to leave it all white and pure. This of course refereed to the quality of white milk with no nasty bacteria etc, however, for some reason, people saw this as racist. How I'm not quite sure. The advert was cleared and found not to be racist, but I just cant see why some people need to turn everything into something offensive. But then the world is full of this now, not just with ethnicities, but any kind of minority, sexism for example, many seem to enjoy making mountains out of molehills.

Milk advert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fJhJnWizkQ
Posted December 13, 2014
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awalterj: One can of course interpret anything as racism nowadays if you try hard enough, even washing detergent adverts:
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ddickinson: That is so true, it's getting so silly, or more fittingly, stupid, what people find to complain about now. We had an advert in the UK about a milk being purified to give a better taste. It had a black and white cow that had all the black spots cleaned to leave it all white and pure. This of course refereed to the quality of white milk with no nasty bacteria etc, however, for some reason, people saw this as racist. How I'm not quite sure. The advert was cleared and found not to be racist, but I just cant see why some people need to turn everything into something offensive. But then the world is full of this now, not just with ethnicities, but any kind of minority, sexism for example, many seem to enjoy making mountains out of molehills.

Milk advert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fJhJnWizkQ
That is so weird. You're right, some things these days are definitely going too far - I don't see any reason to view those advertisements as racist. Still, I have some black friends who are offended by Black Pete, and I get where they're coming from. And who am I to decide what someone should or should not feel offended by? It's a complicated issue.

Sinterklaas is quite an enjoyable tradition on the whole, and I have some very good memories of it. I figured out he wasn't real quite early on, though. Supposedly, Black Pete climbs down the chimney to deliver presents to children, but considering we never had a chimney, five-year old me had some trouble believing that. I remember being so peeved when my mother confirmed that he wasn't real - I hated being told 'lies'. :P
Posted December 13, 2014
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FearfulSymmetry: ...
Most things that are seen as racist or offensive today have no real racist or offensive intent. Sadly people see what they want to see, and even worse, some people deliberately make an issue out of it to get attention and to cause problems. I'm not saying some things are not racist or offensive, nor that people can't feel offended, but it is getting out of hand for a lot of things now. To much political correctness that is just being abused, it makes it hard for real cases to get the attention and help they need.
Posted December 13, 2014
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FearfulSymmetry: ...
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ddickinson: Most things that are seen as racist or offensive today have no real racist or offensive intent. Sadly people see what they want to see, and even worse, some people deliberately make an issue out of it to get attention and to cause problems. I'm not saying some things are not racist or offensive, nor that people can't feel offended, but it is getting out of hand for a lot of things now. To much political correctness that is just being abused, it makes it hard for real cases to get the attention and help they need.
True. And I did always consider it strange that the UN would involve themselves in this discussion, when there are a million more important things that need attention.

Back on topic: it's not in December, but in November we have St. Martin's day. Children craft paper lanterns in preparation for the feast, and then, on the evening of the 11th, they take the lanterns and go from door to door, singing songs about St. Martin. As a reward, they get a piece of candy or some fruit. It was always one of my favourite feasts as a child, and your candy haul could last you all year.
Posted December 13, 2014
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FearfulSymmetry: ...
The UN always seems to get involved in trivial matters, especially if it involves a celebrity, while more important matters are left untouched, maybe a sign of how it has been corrupted over the years.

The paper lanterns event sound very nice, it sounds a bit like a mixture of Halloween (for the candy) and singing Christmas carols door to door, but with charming paper lanterns instead.
Posted December 13, 2014
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FearfulSymmetry: ...
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ddickinson: The UN always seems to get involved in trivial matters, especially if it involves a celebrity, while more important matters are left untouched, maybe a sign of how it has been corrupted over the years.

The paper lanterns event sound very nice, it sounds a bit like a mixture of Halloween (for the candy) and singing Christmas carols door to door, but with charming paper lanterns instead.
Yes, it does seem to have elements of both those traditions. It's very nice to see all the children, and some of the lanterns they craft are absolutely beautiful. I know some adults don't like that they have to buy candy and constantly have to get up to open the door, but I personally enjoy seeing all of those lanterns and hearing the children sing. Some of them are really small. too, and it's always amusing to see them hiding behind their parents instead of singing a song. :P
Posted December 13, 2014
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FearfulSymmetry: ...
What do they do with the lanterns afterwards? I know that in some places they fly them into the night sky with candles in them, like the Chinese do. Though this can often cause a lot of problems for aircraft and military.
Posted December 13, 2014
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FearfulSymmetry: ...
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ddickinson: What do they do with the lanterns afterwards? I know that in some places they fly them into the night sky with candles in them, like the Chinese do. Though this can often cause a lot of problems for aircraft and military.
Oh really? That sounds lovely. Here, the children just take them home again. My parents used to display them for a bit until they finally ended up in the bin, but I don't know if that's how other families do it. We don't really have an event with them, though.
Posted December 13, 2014
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FearfulSymmetry: Oh really? That sounds lovely. Here, the children just take them home again. My parents used to display them for a bit until they finally ended up in the bin, but I don't know if that's how other families do it. We don't really have an event with them, though.
Here is the kind of thing people do in Asia (the link below), I know it is big in China, but I'm sure neighbouring areas will do it as well. They are not decorated in the video (I just quickly grabbed it of YouTube), but I have seen some that are and they look lovely floating away. The colour decoration makes the lights all different shades.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gJH22WNqyM
Posted December 13, 2014
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FearfulSymmetry: Oh really? That sounds lovely. Here, the children just take them home again. My parents used to display them for a bit until they finally ended up in the bin, but I don't know if that's how other families do it. We don't really have an event with them, though.
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ddickinson: Here is the kind of thing people do in Asia (the link below), I know it is big in China, but I'm sure neighbouring areas will do it as well. They are not decorated in the video (I just quickly grabbed it of YouTube), but I have seen some that are and they look lovely floating away. The colour decoration makes the lights all different shades.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gJH22WNqyM
Ah yes, I've seen that before. It looks really pretty! Our lanterns don't tend to be fit for floating, though - they usually hang down. I've attached some pictures I found on the internet for reference. If you google 'sint maarten lampion' you can find some really pretty ones. :)
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sint_maarten_kin.jpg (78 Kb)
sint-maarten-kid.jpg (104 Kb)
lampion2.jpg (157 Kb)
Posted December 13, 2014
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FearfulSymmetry: ...
They look really nice, I bet it was so much fun decorating them. The fact that they don't have to float means you are free to use different shapes and sizes, and not have to worry about it being light enough to float. Which gives the kids a lot more freedom and creativity.
Posted December 13, 2014
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FearfulSymmetry: ...
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ddickinson: They look really nice, I bet it was so much fun decorating them. The fact that they don't have to float means you are free to use different shapes and sizes, and not have to worry about it being light enough to float. Which gives the kids a lot more freedom and creativity.
Definitely true. They're usually made at schools, and the schools tend to pick a different design each year, along with different ones for the various ages. Many of them are made from papier-mâché, but they can also be made from, for example, tin cans. There are some very elaborate designs around.
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General discussion (archive)The Great Nations GOG Giveaway #5 - Special Festive Edition.(63 posts)(63 posts)
(63 posts)