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General discussion (archive)the future of diablo clones(17 posts)(17 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 12, 2012
i just got done playing the demo to Dungeon Siege III, and lo and behold i notice something, they did away with potions. now instead you can refill your life at save points, and the enemy's drop little green bulbs that refill your life a little.


so in order to progress through the game, you either have to make it all the way to the next save without dying able only to refill when an enemy happens to drop a little life your way, or you have to back track to the last save point and refill your life there before going once more into the breach and retracking all your steps.

would you say this is the future of diablo clones? and is that a good thing?

i think it is a horrible idea, i loved being able to just hit 1 and instantly be back up where i want to be in life points and mana points!
Posted December 12, 2012
I wouldn't call Dungeon Siege III a Diablo clone.
Posted December 12, 2012
Best potion system ever is in Path of Exile.
Basically, potions are items that you place on your belt. Now, here's the important distinction: They're not consumables, they're regular items, and you can have maximum of 5 of them. Now, how is that a good thing you ask? Every potion is a flask filled with a certain substance - there are normal potions, that refill certain ammount of health / mana on use, so let's use those for our example.

You see a red flask on your belt. All good. You press 1 when your health drops and it gets refilled on basis of how efficient the flask is. Standard so far. Buut, your flask doesn't disappear on use - instead, it gets a bit emptier and loses charge, and after certain ammount of uses, you have an empty flask that you can't use in your belt. So, how do you refill them? By killing enemies, naturally. Now, let's get to how is it all interesting: Beside normal flasks, you can get magical, rare and even unique ones, which grant you certain effects on use, like, for instance, that 50% of health regained on use is transferred to your minions - and there's loads of effects like this. And beside health, mana, and 'both' potions, you also have special ones - potions which don't refill your health at all, but, for instance, grant you guaranteed critical hits for the next two seconds.

So basically, it turns potions into items which you will collect, compare and look for, it prevents them from being spammed (when you're fighting a boss, there's only so few enemies you can kill,) and it generally makes them more rewarding to use.
Posted December 12, 2012
I also think it's a bad idea but at least they're doing something.
Potions for health and magic of some sort have always bothered me since I don't think it's a good game mechanic. You have to lug around much of it and all it do is add to clicks and key presses. They should have come up with a new solution that doesn't involve you having to click or press some buttons a lot by now. It distracts from the gameplay.

I'm fine with potions that add bonuses and effects though.
Posted December 12, 2012
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Aningan: I wouldn't call Dungeon Siege III a Diablo clone.
thats the thing though, in video games, everyone is always pushing to find new methods of game design. eventually, the old diablo formula will become so outdated, that the only games still using it are going to be indie games you buy for 3 dollars on steam who want a retro throw back game for nostalgia purposes.
Posted December 12, 2012
Usually in those kind of games, I just save all my potions "for the next boss", and I end up finishing the game with the inventory full of them, backtracking to wherever I can be heal when needed.
I did that in Titan Quest anyway
526ZX-9DGDZ-F5MAC

That being say, I'd think in the future we'll just have auto-regen everywhere.
Posted December 12, 2012
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dksone: Usually in those kind of games, I just save all my potions "for the next boss", and I end up finishing the game with the inventory full of them, backtracking to wherever I can be heal when needed.
I did that in Titan Quest anyway
526ZX-9DGDZ-F5MAC

That being say, I'd think in the future we'll just have auto-regen everywhere.
I seen what you did there, I already got the game but still +1 my good man +1
Posted December 12, 2012
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ashout: ...
Sounds pretty crappy to me.
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Fenixp: ..
Quite an interesting game mechanics. Like it.

I also like how the game mechanics are in Diablo 3. The best one heals for 12,500 HP (usually characters at max level have ~50k HP) and all of them have 30 seconds cooldown. Meaning you cannot spam potions. To compensate for that, whenever you fight Elite monsters and bosses, they have a chance to drop a healing globe at 75%, 50%, 25% and 0% (talking about their health points percentage), whose healing effectiveness depends on several factors (the quality of the globes, and your buffs and bonuses).
Posted December 12, 2012
Dungeon Siege III isn't really a Diablo clone - its not even really a Dungeon Siege game. It's more of a console style hack and slash game (which is really what it is even down to being a console focused game).

I can assure you that the idea of killing enemies and getting health bubbles from them is nothing new in the game world; it might be more prevalent on the consoles, but its a tried and tested method of health regen.

Heck the idea of fixed health and then checkpoint recharge is common enough in many games (Final fantasy does it in almost all their games - Trine does it)
Posted December 12, 2012
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Fenixp: Best potion system ever is in Path of Exile.
Basically, potions are items that you place on your belt. Now, here's the important distinction: They're not consumables, they're regular items, and you can have maximum of 5 of them. Now, how is that a good thing you ask? Every potion is a flask filled with a certain substance - there are normal potions, that refill certain ammount of health / mana on use, so let's use those for our example.

You see a red flask on your belt. All good. You press 1 when your health drops and it gets refilled on basis of how efficient the flask is. Standard so far. Buut, your flask doesn't disappear on use - instead, it gets a bit emptier and loses charge, and after certain ammount of uses, you have an empty flask that you can't use in your belt. So, how do you refill them? By killing enemies, naturally. Now, let's get to how is it all interesting: Beside normal flasks, you can get magical, rare and even unique ones, which grant you certain effects on use, like, for instance, that 50% of health regained on use is transferred to your minions - and there's loads of effects like this. And beside health, mana, and 'both' potions, you also have special ones - potions which don't refill your health at all, but, for instance, grant you guaranteed critical hits for the next two seconds.

So basically, it turns potions into items which you will collect, compare and look for, it prevents them from being spammed (when you're fighting a boss, there's only so few enemies you can kill,) and it generally makes them more rewarding to use.
Path of Exile indeed is the best system, it rewards you for smart play, the flasks themselves have itemization value, the potions do different things, spam-quaffing potions is usually not rewarded, and basically you refill by killing. It's literally every good idea anyone ever had regarding health potions.
Posted December 12, 2012
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ashout: i think it is a horrible idea, i loved being able to just hit 1 and instantly be back up where i want to be in life points and mana points!
I haven't played DS3 yet (except for a demo on a buddy's PS3) but the system seems better to me than the classic system. I always hated it that in Diablo combat is largely about refilling your health potion stock and pressing the number keys whenever your health is low. A complete lack of skill or tactics can be compensated by frequently returning to a shop. Okay, in DS3 you can apparently just backtrack to the last checkpoint which is just as lame as returning to town all the time but at least the devs seemed to be bothered by the same thing as I. It's just sad that they apparently failed to improve the system. :P
Posted December 12, 2012
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ashout: i think it is a horrible idea, i loved being able to just hit 1 and instantly be back up where i want to be in life points and mana points!
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F4LL0UT: I haven't played DS3 yet (except for a demo on a buddy's PS3) but the system seems better to me than the classic system. I always hated it that in Diablo combat is largely about refilling your health potion stock and pressing the number keys whenever your health is low. A complete lack of skill or tactics can be compensated by frequently returning to a shop. Okay, in DS3 you can apparently just backtrack to the last checkpoint which is just as lame as returning to town all the time but at least the devs seemed to be bothered by the same thing as I. It's just sad that they apparently failed to improve the system. :P
It punishes craptastic play a bit more than opening a town portal to refill any of your 1 million pots, which turns many games more into a game of economics early on (as you have to choose between potions and equipment upgrades) and a needless chore later on because you'll just refill to the maximum allowed stack value each time.

This is a lot better as it's a fairly consistent mechanic regardless of level and character power, I can't recall anymore about DS3, but some games will reward you with the dropped life orbs only for pulling off the higher skilled moves.
Post edited December 12, 2012 by orcishgamer
Posted December 12, 2012
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Fenixp: So basically, it turns potions into items which you will collect, compare and look for, it prevents them from being spammed (when you're fighting a boss, there's only so few enemies you can kill,) and it generally makes them more rewarding to use.
This system sounds quite brilliant indeed. Really gotta give the game finally a try. It's funny how that debut title seems to totally beat Drakensang Online which has a similar premise and is developed by a much bigger and more experienced company.
Posted December 13, 2012
i think dungeon siege 1,2, and even 3 is a better game then torchlight or diablo. havn't played diablo III yet, and probably never will due to DRM.
Posted December 13, 2012
Disclaimer: I have only played Dungeon Siege 1 and Torchlight, so I can't comment on Diablo or Dungeon Siege 2 and 3, but to say that Dungeon Siege 1 is a better game than Torchlight? I'd say they are more like apple and orange: one is more about party-based while the other is more about a single character (unless you count your pet as part of a party). Both are fun, but I would not exactly call Dungeon Siege 1 a better game than Torchlight.
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General discussion (archive)the future of diablo clones(17 posts)(17 posts)
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