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HoneyBakedHam: First, the term "PC" has absolutely no worthwhile meaning. It started in the sixties and seventies as a media philosophy to use more inclusive language in news reporting. Replacing chairman with chairperson, for example, is simply an attempt to recognize that in these modern times, the chair might well be a woman. The unfortunately named "political correctness" movement, however, has been vilified on the right and over the years has mutated into a slur used by many to merely justify statements that are in fact simply offensive.

If one were to say, "blacks are lazy people who would rather leech the public dime than do an honest day's work," then I'd be pretty justified in calling that statement racist. At which point I'd be accused of being "politically correct." And if being politically correct means calling out bigoted bullshit, then I fail to see what would be wrong with that... but it doesn't mean that, and as it used today, it doesn't mean anything at all... or at least not anything of worth.
You are my hero. I am printing this and sticking it to my fridge.
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HoneyBakedHam: First, the term "PC" has absolutely no worthwhile meaning. It started in the sixties and seventies as a media philosophy to use more inclusive language in news reporting. Replacing chairman with chairperson, for example, is simply an attempt to recognize that in these modern times, the chair might well be a woman. The unfortunately named "political correctness" movement, however, has been vilified on the right and over the years has mutated into a slur used by many to merely justify statements that are in fact simply offensive.

If one were to say, "blacks are lazy people who would rather leech the public dime than do an honest day's work," then I'd be pretty justified in calling that statement racist. At which point I'd be accused of being "politically correct." And if being politically correct means calling out bigoted bullshit, then I fail to see what would be wrong with that... but it doesn't mean that, and as it used today, it doesn't mean anything at all... or at least not anything of worth.
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Darling_Jimmy: You are my hero. I am printing this and sticking it to my fridge.
Well, thank you... I may have always believed this and stated it, but if you are looking for a hero, Bob Chipman (Movie Bob at the Escapist) said it better here...

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/2783-Correctitude
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HoneyBakedHam: Okay... I don't have any real issue with the point you are making here in regards to the idea that different racial, ethnic, or gender groups may have various strengths and weaknesses that are measurable... after all, elves are better in the forest than dwarves, but dwarves are better underground... (that's all based on science, right?)

But as a member of the community that stands on the left, quite a distance from center, I feel only a little compelled to make a few comments. etc.
The problem is, that the PC attitude is going way too far a lot of the times. Changing the names of things to "not offend" while the people who the name affects usually don't really care ... is that really needed? And this is the lightest form of existence.

Under PC, I also include those people who don't want to offend anyone so anytime you make a general statement they complain to say "not all of them are like that, how dare you say that" which is facepalm-worthy since general statements are called general for a reason (and yes, I'm against the notion that you should never use a general statement - thats how our brain works and we ALL generalize mentally).

It's maybe not true PC, but I consider it to be in the same spirit: reality versus some idealistic world where no-one is offended. Truth is, people are always going to be offended, and often by the truth. The bad result is, that politicians are often afraid of a PC backlash so work to hide certain facts.

A few years back, it was revealed that politicians had been hiding crime figures from the public for years because of what the numbers revealed (namely the high number of criminals among Moroccan youths which was over 80% for males in large cities). Because these numbers were hidden, the press and public were unable to put pressure on politicians to change this or to help reduce that number. Instead, the number steadily climbed for years until a change of government finally brought them to light. And this is what I consider PC gone wrong - even REALITY that might cause offense, is hidden.

In the end, I think PC does as much harm as it does good - it's the INTENTION of the person that counts anyway, not the particular words used. It's like this episode of Everybody Loves Raymond where one of the actors used the word "black" and they all gasp. "Oh no, she used the word "black"! PC has made that a bad evil racist word! It's African American these days! Sure in a few years, it will probably be changed again and be considered racist then as well, but lets gasp at the silly PC attitude where using a word to describe skin colour is EVVVILLL!". *facepalms*
Post edited May 01, 2011 by Red_Avatar
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kalirion: An elephant's brain is huge. Those bastards must be running the world from behind the scenes.
LOL
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Red_Avatar: The problem is, that the PC attitude is going way too far a lot of the times. Changing the names of things to "not offend" while the people who the name affects usually don't really care ... is that really needed? And this is the lightest form of existence.
Yeah... some people are a little more zealous than others... like the tree hugging vegetarian who ruins your turkey club with a morality lecture about industrial agriculture... or the right wing whackjob who calls you a communist because you'd like to see a doctor before than growth on your nutsack gets any larger...

Whatever...

PC is still a shield for guys who want to make bigoted claims without having to be responsible for them.

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Red_Avatar: Under PC, I also include those people who don't want to offend anyone....
Just to be clear, what is the virtue of people who do want to offend someone?
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HoneyBakedHam: Just to be clear, what is the virtue of people who do want to offend someone?
Goatse man and Tub Girl.
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HoneyBakedHam: PC is still a shield for guys who want to make bigoted claims without having to be responsible for them.
It's a very convenient shield, though, and a shield that is effective too - it has too much power. When I see adverts getting pulled down for being possibly vaguely offensive to women, yet three feet further, adverts that are far less vague and openly ridicule men are left untouched ... it makes you wonder how balanced and unbiased people really are. Right now it seems to be a case of "he or she who whines the most".

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Red_Avatar: Under PC, I also include those people who don't want to offend anyone....
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HoneyBakedHam: Just to be clear, what is the virtue of people who do want to offend someone?
Ah, a logical fallacy my dear Watson. You seem to wrongfully conclude that, because there's people who are so scared they might potentially offend anyone, that the alternative is allowing people to offend. That's not what I said.

The biggest danger of PC is stimulating hyper-sensitivity - just like how law suits have caused a culture of fear against being sued and adding all sorts of retarded lines to manuals ("don't drop heavy object on head"), the PC culture makes people more vocal about what are really minor issues, dragging it out to ridiculous proportions. I think that, as a society, we lose part of our strength if we focus so much on small matters, weakening ourselves, instead of going after what actually matters. As I said earlier, a racist is a racist - making him use PC words won't make him less of a racist - PC is a joke in that respect. All it does is coat the reality and shove it under the rug. Rather we live in blissful ignorance, eh?
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Voight-Kampff: Well, the female brain IS smaller. Thats not news.
And a midget's brain is smaller. Size does not matter in this case, since a female is going to be smaller on average than a male with any organ. The real difference is that male and female brains work a bit different wiring wise.
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Voight-Kampff: Well, the female brain IS smaller. Thats not news.
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jcdenton11: And a midget's brain is smaller. Size does not matter in this case, since a female is going to be smaller on average than a male with any organ. The real difference is that male and female brains work a bit different wiring wise.
I never said that size mattered in this case. :P
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Voight-Kampff: I never said that size mattered in this case. :P
Maybe it does, maybe a smaller brain is more adaptive, efficient and draws less power?
Post edited May 02, 2011 by Miaghstir
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Voight-Kampff: I never said that size mattered in this case. :P
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Miaghstir: Maybe it does, maybe a smaller brain is more adaptive, efficient and draws less power?
Well, I know nothing about it. So I'll choose not to speculate. All I know is that it's smaller, and I won't make any assumptions about wether or not that has any significant influence on anything. :P
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jcdenton11: The real difference is that male and female brains work a bit different wiring wise.
here's a humorous video on the theme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sbjG604ST0
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Miaghstir: Maybe it does, maybe a smaller brain is more adaptive, efficient and draws less power?
The female brain is probably faster, but men have dual processors. (Two brains.)
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HoneyBakedHam: PC is still a shield for guys who want to make bigoted claims without having to be responsible for them.
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Red_Avatar: It's a very convenient shield, though, and a shield that is effective too - it has too much power. When I see adverts getting pulled down for being possibly vaguely offensive to women, yet three feet further, adverts that are far less vague and openly ridicule men are left untouched ... it makes you wonder how balanced and unbiased people really are. Right now it seems to be a case of "he or she who whines the most".
Here we agree. Which is one of the reasons why I've been getting increasingly assertive about my rights. The last straw was at the beginning of my current course of study where one of the classes had a feminist propaganda lecture as a lecture on sexism. Being shouted down for politely pointing out that the information was badly biased and didn't provide for any questioning was pivotal.

I don't know about the rest of the world, but I do know that in the US women are neither a minority by numbers nor a minority by power. I've heard things to suggest that a similar situation applies to the UK. I know that there's a father's rights movement over there that sometimes takes on odd forms.
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Voight-Kampff: I never said that size mattered in this case. :P
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Miaghstir: Maybe it does, maybe a smaller brain is more adaptive, efficient and draws less power?
The total neuron count is basically identical. Women just have a much higher density. Which is really bad if you're talking about situations where there might be swelling of the tissue.
Post edited May 02, 2011 by hedwards