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Starkrun: I find the game increasingly challenging, though i maxed out smiting prior to anything else.. mages give me a lot of trouble if there tossing fireballs... im pure melee no enchants no potions just good ol'fashioned 2 hander...

min maxers will be the whiners that dont like "Skyrim" i usually am one but i decided im not going to exploit the game by making uber level poisons and getting my Armor to 400+ before im lvl 3 ((which you can)) and also enchants that effectively nullify the need for mana...

its possible to make the entire game a cake walk... or you can play it and have fun... in fact im having more fun in Skyrim then i ever did in MW or Oblivion, each of which Ive invested 100+ hours...
I think that expecting people to not max out certain skills as much as possible is a bit naive. If you want to be a thief, you'll work on picking locks, picking pockets and sneaking, but picking pockets raises waaaay faster than the other two, so you'll end up being level 100 in skill and level 20+ in general after just a few hours.

And the reason you need to work on those skills, is because using them "in the field" doesn't raise them enough. After 20 hours or so, my sneaking is still just 55 and I'm sneaking ALL THE TIME! Every kill I make is a sneak kill so how on earth can I only be at level 55? I pick every lock as well and I'm just level 50 either and I've picked hundreds and hundreds of locks. Sure, I'm surviving without them being level 100, but as a thief you want to sneak as well as possible and even at level 55, you're easily spotted.

In general, I'd say the game needs to be rebalanced - some skills need to be modded to make more sense, to be more or less rewarding, or to level up fast enough compared to how you explore the game. It's just not quite there.

I always find the easiest way to make money, and picking pockets really makes a killing - go to Riften, do one quest, and you have a fence that gets fresh money every day so it's highly rewarding to steal from then on.

Then I found a second method that's even easier: enchant the loot from caves and stuff using soulgems and sell them or, even better, do the Azura quest and get Azura's star (i recommend getting the black star) and you can easily make very powerful weapons and sell them for 500+ gold each. Then with the money, you can easily BUY the skills from any trainer you encounter.
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Starkrun: I find the game increasingly challenging, though i maxed out smiting prior to anything else.. mages give me a lot of trouble if there tossing fireballs... im pure melee no enchants no potions just good ol'fashioned 2 hander...

min maxers will be the whiners that dont like "Skyrim" i usually am one but i decided im not going to exploit the game by making uber level poisons and getting my Armor to 400+ before im lvl 3 ((which you can)) and also enchants that effectively nullify the need for mana...


its possible to make the entire game a cake walk... or you can play it and have fun... in fact im having more fun in Skyrim then i ever did in MW or Oblivion, each of which Ive invested 100+ hours...

on a side note you can beat MW at without leveling if you know the ins and outs, theres plenty of speed runs out there on the fact...
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jefequeso: whaaaaa...?

I found that the real challenge is to play a pure class. I cant blame the game for being too easy when I probably spent over 400 hours on all elders scroll games. I know which skills to pick, how to level them fast, how to use them effectively, etc.

Now I am pretty damn sure that if I put the difficulty to the hardest and play a pure mage that does'nt use stealth to farm money or avoid hard enemies I will find it difficult.



that's...stupid. What's the point, then?
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Red_Avatar: The point is so even dumb derp duuuuh console gamers could play the game without hurting their scarce braincells over such things as "stats". When you play Morrowind after playing Skyrim, you can't help but notice that anything that was a bit hard has been completely removed:

- stealing and breaking in is piss easy now
- much easier to make money
- no stats at all except for health, mana and stamina.
- increasing skills is a lot easier in most cases
- Skyrim is a lot more forgiving
- every dungeon you enter has enemies you can easily defeat. In Morrowind, it was a gamble whether you'd get your ass handed to you or not and if you were clever, you could defeat much tougher enemies and get rewarded with amazing loot.
etc. etc. etc.

Seriously, I miss the game being hard. Even at the hardest difficulty, it still scales everything to your level except animals.
I failed to understand the power of spell wards, try them and let them waste their mana on you. You should always cary a weapon that drains magicka too, so when fighting mages you;

-Hide behind columns
-walk towards enemy with ward up
-hit him a few times with drain magicka weapon
-repeat
Post edited November 21, 2011 by godspeeed
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StingingVelvet: Bored of my spellsword after 74 hours and at level 37. Finished the mage, legion and fighters questlines.
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kavazovangel: Level 37 in 74 hours? What the... What is the level limit?
As others said, 50 seems to be the soft cap with only the insanely dedicated getting further. I am sure I could have leveled to 50+ if I did the other questlines, but I wanted to do them with a new character.

I saw most there was to see with swords and destruction magic anyway, so no big.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvJtSx0_VlQ
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godspeeed: Leveling is different than other RPGs, most enemies will scale with you so level mainly affect perks and details like this. You could finish the game without leveling.
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jefequeso: whaaaaa...?


that's...stupid. What's the point, then?
The point is to avoid a lvl1 char using "clever" aka exploitive tactics to obtain a high-end daedric sword, which he then uses to one- or two-hit otherwise challenging enemies for his lvl.
Another point is to prevent that you stumble as a high-lvl char into a cave full with lvl 1-5 rats and bandits who can barely lift their weapons.
Another justification for the level scaling, at least as far as enemies are concerned, would be that you can't really call it an "open world" RPG anymore if there's a soft linearity enforced by difficulty.
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Siannah: The point is to avoid a lvl1 char using "clever" aka exploitive tactics to obtain a high-end daedric sword, which he then uses to one- or two-hit otherwise challenging enemies for his lvl.
Another point is to prevent that you stumble as a high-lvl char into a cave full with lvl 1-5 rats and bandits who can barely lift their weapons.
To some those are arguments against leveled encounters, to others they are arguments for the same.
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Aaron86: Another justification for the level scaling, at least as far as enemies are concerned, would be that you can't really call it an "open world" RPG anymore if there's a soft linearity enforced by difficulty.
Yeah, there has to be some scaling. And by the way, saying you can finish this game without leveling at all is incorrect. There are many enemies in the world right when you start that are too difficult to beat at level one, and some of them will be along the main quest route. Hagravens for example... try beating one of those right out of the tutorial and you're a dead man.
The newest 'patch' is just more DRM. Now Steamworks has been added to the main exe.
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kavazovangel: The newest 'patch' is just more DRM. Now Steamworks has been added to the main exe.
Nice to see where their priorities are.
Yeah, and now some folks are seeing increased crashing [again]. Some of us were able to bypass crashing by using the LAA utility [Large Address Aware enabler for 4GB+ memory access], but the update puts a stop to that.

Ah well, was only a matter of time before something stupid happened eh? I am not an opponent of DRM, but I dislike when it affects my ability to play [or, in Skyrim's case - play for a period of time without crashing] legitimate copies of games :/
The more screwing Steam does to paying customers the more of them will revolt. I like it.

I had Steam turned off and was playing direct from the exe anyway, so I avoided the replacement. I will have to deal with it when a real patch comes though, I guess.
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jefequeso: whaaaaa...?


that's...stupid. What's the point, then?
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Siannah: The point is to avoid a lvl1 char using "clever" aka exploitive tactics to obtain a high-end daedric sword, which he then uses to one- or two-hit otherwise challenging enemies for his lvl.
Another point is to prevent that you stumble as a high-lvl char into a cave full with lvl 1-5 rats and bandits who can barely lift their weapons.
So in other words, it's yet another way to take away player freedom. Lovely.
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Siannah: The point is to avoid a lvl1 char using "clever" aka exploitive tactics to obtain a high-end daedric sword, which he then uses to one- or two-hit otherwise challenging enemies for his lvl.
Another point is to prevent that you stumble as a high-lvl char into a cave full with lvl 1-5 rats and bandits who can barely lift their weapons.
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jefequeso: So in other words, it's yet another way to take away player freedom. Lovely.
Ugh! Just like Oblivion then. Definitely not getting it.
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jefequeso: So in other words, it's yet another way to take away player freedom. Lovely.
As someone else said, scaling is required for player freedom to some extent. If you place everything and make regions varying levels of difficulty then the exploration is all completely linear as you go from one level area to another, like WoW.

The problem with Oblivion was that it over did it. Skyrim is not nearly as bad. You can find high-level items early on if you know where to look. You can stumble on really tough enemies if you go to the right area.