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Was I the only one that heard the thread title as read by George Takei?
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mystral: QFT.

An action RPG isn't necessarily just hack&slash, having good reflexes and spamming your strongest ability.

In TW 2 you need to be patient, to use the right skill at the right time and to think ahead when moving so you don't get surrounded (at least on hard). What is that if not tactics?
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Snickersnack: The problem with that is that Devil May Cry and its ilk would be tactical RPG series.
No.
DMC is not an RPG in any shape or form, no matter whether the combat is hack&slash or tactical (and from my experience it falls more on the hack&slash side of things).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_role-playing_game

:D
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StingingVelvet: Hahaha... I get where you are coming from, but you can have tactical action games as well as pure tactics games. Rainbow Six for example.

Witcher 2 is certainly very tactical despite being an action RPG.
Well, i've kinda abandoned games when 3d came in [3d as in Quake and so on], so i've missed on a lot of games, Rainbow Six being one, from what i've heard. The "tactics" i remember are a bit different term today i guess. ;)
I already got my Witcher Premium, with 2 proud papercrafts looking at me from the top of my CRT. So if tactics do indeed matter in W2 combat, i'll be delighted, though i've used to some more hardcore tactics, like JA and XCOMs. But if it trully works in W2, it's gonna be great, W1 didn't shine when it comes to combat.
But yeah, i'm a mean, raised by wolves and Ultimas guy. ;P
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Arteveld: Well, i've kinda abandoned games when 3d came in [3d as in Quake and so on], so i've missed on a lot of games, Rainbow Six being one, from what i've heard. The "tactics" i remember are a bit different term today i guess. ;)
I already got my Witcher Premium, with 2 proud papercrafts looking at me from the top of my CRT. So if tactics do indeed matter in W2 combat, i'll be delighted, though i've used to some more hardcore tactics, like JA and XCOMs. But if it trully works in W2, it's gonna be great, W1 didn't shine when it comes to combat.
But yeah, i'm a mean, raised by wolves and Ultimas guy. ;P
Oh it's not at all like X-Com.

What I am saying is that reflex-based action games can still involve tactics and strategy. You can't just mash on the mouse buttons to whack enemies to death on normal difficulty, you have to dodge and parry, you have to use bombs and spells to do crowd control and such. Those are tactical elements within the action game design.

I used Rainbox Six as a comparison because it's a similar thing with shooters. You have games like Call of Duty where you just click on enemy heads as fast as possible, but then you have more tactical shooters like Rainbox Six where you have to manage more variables.

So in my opinion The Witcher 2 is a very tactical action game, but it's not at all a tactical RPG in the style of Dragon Age or Temple of Elemental Evil... not even a little bit. It's very much an action RPG, sort of in the Mass Effect 2 mold.
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StingingVelvet: Oh it's not at all like X-Com.

What I am saying is that reflex-based action games can still involve tactics and strategy. You can't just mash on the mouse buttons to whack enemies to death on normal difficulty, you have to dodge and parry, you have to use bombs and spells to do crowd control and such. Those are tactical elements within the action game design.

I used Rainbox Six as a comparison because it's a similar thing with shooters. You have games like Call of Duty where you just click on enemy heads as fast as possible, but then you have more tactical shooters like Rainbox Six where you have to manage more variables.

So in my opinion The Witcher 2 is a very tactical action game, but it's not at all a tactical RPG in the style of Dragon Age or Temple of Elemental Evil... not even a little bit. It's very much an action RPG, sort of in the Mass Effect 2 mold.
Well, i wouldn't expect an XCOM/JA game today [sadly;)]. My friend made a similar assessment of 'how combat works' in W2. I've heard it's 'a bit more actiony', than the first, and combat in W1 was more about "hitting the enemy with the cursor at an exact moment, while constantly watching the corner of the screen, to know how Your stats are doing'.

Well, i come from a different kind of RPGers, where tactics was more about "You've lost because Your logic and evaluation of the situation was wrong.", I guess that's why hearing about W2 being tactical makes me raise a brow.;)

Now, You're the second source [fist one being a review in the cheesy CD Action magazine] to connect this game to ME2, which i didn't play, after being disappointed with the first game. This comparison worries me a bit, the first game was a heavy action game, and i've heard the second one is even more so.

Anyhow, it all boils down to how broad/wide the borders of tactics one sees, i grew up on the turn based ones, and my reflexes really suck. I hope i'll be able to like W2. I guess as long as i have a pause to take a breath and set my fingers on the run-the-hell-away button all will be fine. Just hoping it's not as hectic as W1.
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Arteveld: Well, i wouldn't expect an XCOM/JA game today [sadly;)].
Just wait for Xenonauts. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenonauts

It's a modern version of XCom. :D
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Arteveld: Well, i come from a different kind of RPGers, where tactics was more about "You've lost because Your logic and evaluation of the situation was wrong.", I guess that's why hearing about W2 being tactical makes me raise a brow.;)

Now, You're the second source [fist one being a review in the cheesy CD Action magazine] to connect this game to ME2, which i didn't play, after being disappointed with the first game. This comparison worries me a bit, the first game was a heavy action game, and i've heard the second one is even more so.
I started playing RPGs in the old days as well, but the difference between me and a lot of other old-school RPGers seems to be that I also like action games. While I do wish we had more modern games like Fallout or Icewind Dale, I also like action RPGs like Gothic, The Witcher 2 and Mass Effect. I don't limit myself to one or the other.

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Arteveld: Anyhow, it all boils down to how broad/wide the borders of tactics one sees, i grew up on the turn based ones, and my reflexes really suck. I hope i'll be able to like W2. I guess as long as i have a pause to take a breath and set my fingers on the run-the-hell-away button all will be fine. Just hoping it's not as hectic as W1.
If you aren't good at action games I would advise playing the game on easy, since on normal it is a pretty demanding action game. On easy you should be able to just mash through the combat and enjoy the other aspects of the game which are very RPG-focused (story, decisions, stats, crafting, etc.).
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Sielle: Just wait for Xenonauts. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenonauts

It's a modern version of XCom. :D
Oh, nice to know, though, since, we already had not one but three spiritual successors to XCOM, i'll tread carefully. I'd be really happy if the genre came back from the grave with a few [preferably original] games. I'll keep an eye out on that title, but it'll be hard, since that JA2 remake thing already plucked one out.;P

But that's not really what was bugging me in the "W2 as a tRPG" thing. It's more about little things, like, being able do stuff while being on pause. Since from what i've noticed on my 7600GT, the game in TPP only, i don't think i can pause and click on the ground a bit behind Geralt, in order to move back a bit. W1 only allowed me to ready the sword while on pause. I guess it's more about planning ahead. Hard to say. ;)

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StingingVelvet: I started playing RPGs in the old days as well, but the difference between me and a lot of other old-school RPGers seems to be that I also like action games. While I do wish we had more modern games like Fallout or Icewind Dale, I also like action RPGs like Gothic, The Witcher 2 and Mass Effect. I don't limit myself to one or the other.
Well, nor do i, that's why i took upon the quest to finish the first Witcher game, and i kinda got hooked on. It just takes me a bit longer to adapt to the new stuff.;)
See, the combat in Witcher 1 was pretty actiony for me, and i've heard combat in W2 is even more on the action side, that left me a bit confused. I'll have to see it play out to know. [as soon as i upgrade the rig...]

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StingingVelvet: If you aren't good at action games I would advise playing the game on easy, since on normal it is a pretty demanding action game. On easy you should be able to just mash through the combat and enjoy the other aspects of the game which are very RPG-focused (story, decisions, stats, crafting, etc.).
I play W1 on normal, but what really kills Geralt when i play it, is my inability to quickly make that second/third attack, the characters slip the cursor in the last moment. So i guess my way of playing it is pretty much like the book author himself, being constantly drunk on some liquids [potion overdose] and hoping to hit the mark.;P

I'm really hoping the dialogue choices are a bit more intuitive here, but that's a different story.;)
Post edited May 21, 2011 by Arteveld
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KavazovAngel: Gameplay should be removed. Its a thing that has been bothering gamers a long time. Why think how you're going to play the game, when you can just sit, relax, and watch how the whole game plays itself?
I really hope CDProjekt Red end up with realeasing Bard: Saviors of Queens as a DLC.