Banner Saga wasn't a project I invested in, so I haven't been following it.

The question that pops into mind is, are they getting outside financing for the branching projecet or is it developed with KS money? If so, then it does feel a bit unethical. And if they really are pushing back the release of originally promised product because of this new thing, then it's even more so.


And would you care to give out another example of a similar situation?

Hey hey hey, don't mess up people's minds. That's simply not true. Here's the citation from their kickstarter updates page: Prooflink.

Please read updates carefully.

Factions is a free multiplayer, limited version of the whole game.

The full game will have a single player campaign and other content.

I see the point and had similar concerns, but I think backers are still going to get the game they were promised, and others won't be able to get that game for free.

For Kickstarter it might be problematic in the long run if they run out of backers but so far it's mostly a problem for the backers who might not get what they wanted. Of course there is always some risk attached, but maybe the risk is much larger then people think.

One underlying problem is that backers have not much experience what will work and how professionell a team is and which timetables are realistic and so on... Backers probably go for shiny graphics and some ideas but that might not be enough to judge about the potential success of a project.

Of course one could say that only projects with a working Demo should be backed up but then many including Banner Sage but also Wasteland 2 would never be financed.

The team behind Banner Saga formed only days before they started the project. It's a small, new company - with other words: high risk (and high chances?).

I am happy that I invested only in a few projects (6) and all are on time so far. I was tempted by Banner Saga and again by Obsidian but turned them both down because they didn't reveal enough of the game play to convince me they are really something special and especially Banner Saga wanted to produce episodes and give only one episode away for the lowest tier and the get them all tier was too expensive which I didn't like.

All in all I think there was a bit of a bubble for KS where people ignored the risks for a while. But they are there and there isn't much KS can do about it. Now the dreaming is over and people will be more careful and it will be better for all involved....

I will back projects only when I am fully convinced or if it is something I really want to support. I will expect some to fail, but they should have been worth it. Ah, this might be even a very clever move. By beta testing the combat system before and calling the beta test a free online game you definitely get more beta testers than any other way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WCFUGCOLLU

This heres a story about billy joe and bobbie sue
Two young lovers with nothin better to do
Than sit around the house, get high, and watch the tube
And here is what happened when they decided to cut loose

They headed down to, ooh, old el paso
That's where they ran into a great big hassle
Billy joe shot a man while robbing his castle
Bobbie sue took the money and run

Go on take the money and run
Go on take the money and run
Go on take the money and run
Go on take the money and run

Thought the same thing.

And it gives you free publicity and an increased potential buyer base.

I rather have a game delayed for bit instead of playing the beta tester myself (involuntarily)

And to quote update 23: I've pledged to a lot of Kickstarter projects. Many of them are behind schedule, but as a software developer I kind of expect it. As long as they're showing progress towards the goal I have no problem.

As it has been said, the multiplayer part was planned from the beginning and it was clearly specified in the kickstarter campaign. It goes through Steam as it is currently in beta and rolling updates throught Steam is a lot easier for them.

Working like this allows them to balance combat and finish the engine while working on the multiplayer aspects.

And yes, they are late on the schedule, it happens. But I don't remember they said the game would be finished by now. I think they planned the multiplayer beta for the summer (and are late for it), but I don't think they wanted to ship the full game by now.

Maybe you should actually read the updates the devs email to you before making baseless accusations?

As others have said, Factions is just a way to test combat, it's not representative of the final game. As for why they used Steam, it's simply easier to use Steam functionalities for multiplayer than implement their own for a beta version.
Imo, it's a very smart move, both as publicity and as an easy way to take care of bugs and balance issues.

Personally, I played a few battles in Factions, and it was quite fun, although the game is very limited right now.

It's probably not bad to be a bit late (better late than never) but they said it in the tier description: "Estimated delivery: Nov 2012". Surely one should wait some more months to see what comes out.

Using Steam, to me, shows that these developers seem to have little clue about promising one thing and doing another, as well as releasing a multi-player version of a game that should be out by now.

The original game was promised as DRM-free, so why on earth would they think people like me who rarely buy DRM games and never use Steam would want to play multiplayer through Steam?

And yes, the game was supposed to be finished and released by mid-November. But, instead, they've branched off with the free multi-player section of it.

Personally, I don't want multi-player. Never did. That's why I gave money to the developers as I wanted a single-player game, but they are now concentrating on the multi-player section of it and through Steam.

Like I said, not a huge deal as I didn't give them an awful lot of money. But, still, to me it would seem obvious that you release the single-player game first, which was what was promised and what people gave money for and then, if it's taking longer to finish the multi-player segment, finish that last.

Again, not a huge problem but definitely indicative of what could end up being a big problem for Kickstarter down the road if other developers do similar things. After all, Kickstarter has already had one developer that took the money, spent it and then told gamers who gave them money "Sorry no game. We'll try to refund your money if you want it". Long-term if these types of things continue it could make people wary about giving money, which would be a shame.

And no, I definitely don't think The Banner Saga team are like that, but I just think their priorities are backwards.

BTW, sorry, can't reply too often - I'm in Spain on vacation for another two weeks so Internet time is limited. :)

I'm with you, at least half-way (or three-quarters, or... meh, whatever). I have no interest in multiplayer, and prefer to not use Steam if possible, so I haven't bothered trying the beta.

I'm very likely naïve and trusting, but I have no problem waiting for the actual release day (plus another few days for the package to arrive) rather than complaining that the estimate was off.

At least I have my poster... though not yet on the wall.

I think that you didn't read the posts properly. They're using Steam for a beta of the combat part of the game, not for the full game. Is it that hard to understand or are you just searching for reasons to wind up your frustrations on a small indie studio?

The game will be DRM-free.

Again, please, try to read posts more carefully next time before making false accusations. The free multiplayer section is just a way they found so gamers could test the combat section of the game, thus allowing them to improve it and even generate more interest into the game. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

They're concentrating on the main game, the free multiplayer thing is just a way to test the combat section.

You really need to be more careful before making false accusations.

Stoic advertised the "free multiplayer beta" on their web site's front page even before they launched the Kickstarter.

And they're not offering it exclusively through Steam, so it's no more tied to DRM than The Witcher 2 is.