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IAmSinistar: I suspect I'm missing a "meme" here. Though I freely admit that my tastes are outre enough that they are typically last on most business's "meet needs" lists.

This particular case just galls me because I am a programmer, and there is something piscine-scented about a team of indie developers building their product around a DRM framework first, and then needing to surgically excise it for the "regular" version. That does not inspire confidence in either their competence or their product.
What I'm saying is that for most gaming business (and a worryingly increasing number of indie developers) DRM-Free itself seems something like an afterthought; like leftover scraps for the few people who actually care.
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GabiMoro: .....at least the torrented version is not the DRM-free copy from GOG :)
Indeed, for how could it be? :D

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Grargar: What I'm saying is that for most gaming business (and a worryingly increasing number of indie developers) DRM-Free itself seems something like an afterthought; like leftover scraps for the few people who actually care.
You are sadly spot-on there. And I blame a lot of it on businesses not understanding the true nature of the technology. Many seem to still think it is a miraculous shield they must all have, or face ruin, when it is clearly nothing of the kind. Though it does have the amazing power to keep my money away from them.
Post edited January 15, 2014 by IAmSinistar
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GabiMoro: The developers are still strugling to make a working DRM-free copy and yesterday people from outside the developer company (aka pirates) already made a DRM-free copy.

Pretty funny if you ask me.
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Pheace: It sure is if you can't tell the difference between a DRM-ed version with a crack on top of it and a DRM-free version.

These people are actually trying to program a proper DRM-free version and funnily enough all they seem to get from the drm-free crowd is hate. Apparently it's a horrid thing for a 3 man development team with 1 programmer to be late with a different version of the game when it comes to a DRM-free version.

I applaud the people who actually are saying they have the patience to simply wait for it rather than complain.
Then why not releasing all versions at the same time? DRM-free user have to wait --> Steam users have to wait too? Everything is leading to a monopolism of Steam. It seems that DRM-free versions are in nowadays somewhat tedious for developers. "We promised to release a DRM-free version so we do it sometime ... in the future ... if we feel like ..."

The same with Starbound:
Starbound Beta should be released DRM-free.
I preordered the game paying some extra money especially for the DRM-free Beta.
Sorry, no DRM-free Beta availlable. LOL
Post edited January 15, 2014 by Silverhawk170485
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Silverhawk170485: Then why not releasing all versions at the same time? DRM-free user have to wait --> Steam users have to wait too? Everything is leading to a monopolism of Steam. It seems that DRM-free versions are in nowadays somewhat tedious for developers. "We promised to release a DRM-free version so we do it sometime ... in the future ... if we feel like ..."

The same with Starbound:
Starbound Beta should be released DRM-free.
I preordered the game paying some extra money especially for the DRM-free Beta.
Sorry, no DRM-free Beta availlable. LOL
For the same reason Mac/Linux users often have to wait for their version, DRM-free crowd is a smaller crowd. You target the biggest audience and then you go down the line to the smaller ones. Doing it any other way is just a bad business practice.

This is a 3 man team with a completed game ready for the bulk of their players and you want them to sit on it while the bills keep rolling in because the version you prefer isn't finished yet? How about just having a little patience for this team who actually committed themselves to offering a DRM-free version?

The Starbound thing is different. With TBS it's quite likely because of technical issues that the GOG version is delayed as even the people from GOG seem to think that's the case. The Starbound thing is related to regular patching/updating simply not being as convenient for developers to do in a drm-free format as it seems to be to do it through Steam. (probably not in the least because there's always the guarantee people will be playing the latest version rather than filling the forums with outdated bugs of things that were already fixed in a later update that's already available but simply hasn't been downloaded yet)

The developers of Starbound said this it seems:

"However, the way we’ve decided to go about the beta has left us wondering how best to go about distributing it in its first stages, considering how frequently it’s going to be updated and patched and how much simpler it is to do that via Steam"

Isn't it most important that they committed to delivering a DRM-free version as well as committed themselves to spending their time as optimal as they can to deliver a quality game? (hopefully at least).

And apparently even the beta will be DRM-free once the updates become less frequent.

"3) Provide a Steam key from the start and provide a DRM-free version a little later when the beta is more stable and updates are less frequent. "

Which seems to be the option they went for.
Post edited January 15, 2014 by Pheace
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Pheace: It sure is if you can't tell the difference between a DRM-ed version with a crack on top of it and a DRM-free version.

These people are actually trying to program a proper DRM-free version and funnily enough all they seem to get from the drm-free crowd is hate. Apparently it's a horrid thing for a 3 man development team with 1 programmer to be late with a different version of the game when it comes to a DRM-free version.

I applaud the people who actually are saying they have the patience to simply wait for it rather than complain.
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Silverhawk170485: Then why not releasing all versions at the same time? DRM-free user have to wait --> Steam users have to wait too? Everything is leading to a monopolism of Steam. It seems that DRM-free versions are in nowadays somewhat tedious for developers. "We promised to release a DRM-free version so we do it sometime ... in the future ... if we feel like ..."

The same with Starbound:
Starbound Beta should be released DRM-free.
I preordered the game paying some extra money especially for the DRM-free Beta.
Sorry, no DRM-free Beta availlable. LOL
But Starbound have a point . They updating game very oftenly . And reuploading new builds is not a good solution . After the gold version they will release it .
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GabiMoro: The developers are still strugling to make a working DRM-free copy and yesterday people from outside the developer company (aka pirates) already made a DRM-free copy.

Pretty funny if you ask me.
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Skysect: Sorry but I can't keep calm in this situation . They writes somethings in who are us section . Their programmer started to programming at age 6 . But don't know what to do ? That's really pretty stupid .
Who claims they don't know what to do? The devs themselves? Or people around here pulling "knowledge" out of their backend - based on one blue post about technical problems starting with "Personally, I believe..."?
Please gimme that crystal ball sometimes, ok?

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Silverhawk170485: For Example: Maxis said ...
With all due respect, never, ever, put modders and hackers on the same page again. One is about breaking stuff, the other about adding.
Second: we aren't talking about Maxis with EA in their back. We are talking about a (very) small indie dev. Yes they received more money on kickstarter than they asked. Can you really claim it hasn't been put to good use? Or are some acting butthurt on principle?

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Grargar: What I'm saying is that for most gaming business (and a worryingly increasing number of indie developers) DRM-Free itself seems something like an afterthought; like leftover scraps for the few people who actually care.
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IAmSinistar: You are sadly spot-on there. And I blame a lot of it on businesses not understanding the true nature of the technology. Many seem to still think it is a miraculous shield they must all have, or face ruin, when it is clearly nothing of the kind. Though it does have the amazing power to keep my money away from them.
How about blaming those who have the power in their hands, aka the customers and where they put (or don't at all / pirates) their money? The data about how much Defender's Quest sold on Steam vs anywhere else, is old by now - I'm not re-linking it yet again...

DRM-free is still just a niche, not the main goal. Don't know what's so hard to understand about that nor where the data is proving that it isn't so.
Post edited January 15, 2014 by Siannah
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GabiMoro: The developers are still strugling to make a working DRM-free copy and yesterday people from outside the developer company (aka pirates) already made a DRM-free copy.

Pretty funny if you ask me.
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Siannah:
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Skysect: Sorry but I can't keep calm in this situation . They writes somethings in who are us section . Their programmer started to programming at age 6 . But don't know what to do ? That's really pretty stupid .
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Siannah: Who claims they don't know what to do? The devs themselves? Or people around here pulling "knowledge" out of their backend - based on one blue post about technical problems starting with "Personally, I believe..."?
Please gimme that crystal ball sometimes, ok?

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Silverhawk170485: For Example: Maxis said ...
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Siannah: With all due respect, never, ever, put modders and hackers on the same page again. One is about breaking stuff, the other about adding.
Second: we aren't talking about Maxis with EA in their back. We are talking about a (very) small indie dev. Yes they received more money on kickstarter than they asked. Can you really claim it hasn't been put to good use? Or are some acting butthurt on principle?

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IAmSinistar: You are sadly spot-on there. And I blame a lot of it on businesses not understanding the true nature of the technology. Many seem to still think it is a miraculous shield they must all have, or face ruin, when it is clearly nothing of the kind. Though it does have the amazing power to keep my money away from them.
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Siannah: How about blaming those who have the power in their hands, aka the customers and where they put (or don't at all / pirates) their money? The data about how much Defender's Quest sold on Steam vs anywhere else, is old by now - I'm not re-linking it yet again...

DRM-free is still just a niche, not the main goal. Don't know what's so hard to understand about that nor where the data is proving that it isn't so.
Really ? If they know why there is no DRM-free build ? Why firstly don't make it ? Isn't one goal of project ? Why they wrote "Yeah we make a DRM-free version" on their KS Page ? Questions questions . They are killing me .
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Skysect: Really ? If they know why there is no DRM-free build ? Why firstly don't make it ? Isn't one goal of project ? Why they wrote "Yeah we make a DRM-free version" on their KS Page ? Questions questions . They are killing me .
- why no DRM-free build yet / first? Steam almost 60% vs GOG with 8.5% - read it, understand it. If you're the dev of a game, which one is YOUR priority? And don't come running up with "all, at the same time" - again, small dev studio / 3 guys....
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Skysect: Really ? If they know why there is no DRM-free build ? Why firstly don't make it ? Isn't one goal of project ? Why they wrote "Yeah we make a DRM-free version" on their KS Page ? Questions questions . They are killing me .
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Siannah: - why no DRM-free build yet / first? Steam almost 60% vs GOG with 8.5% - read it, understand it. If you're the dev of a game, which one is YOUR priority? And don't come running up with "all, at the same time" - again, small dev studio / 3 guys....
Dude. When people back a KS, everyone assumes ALL backers are ALL treated the same. Yeah. So There are more people using Steam, that doesn't mean the dev should play favorites ( any reasonable person would see it this way) irrespective of the financial realities.
And people who want to buy the game on release feel slighted no matter what you think. Yeah great for dev. Not good for devs reputation with potential customers.
And like i said, they HAD 7 x the goal. they HAD along extended delivery date. They could have used part of extra time to finish things off and treat everyone equally. But they chose not to.

Im not pissed anymore but like everyone else, ill put a blackmark against the dev's name.
Post edited January 15, 2014 by Niggles
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Niggles: So There are more people using Steam, that doesn't mean the dev should play favorites ( any reasonable person would see it this way) irrespective of the financial realities.
And people who want to buy the game on release feel slighted no matter what you think.
Although this clearly is the case for certain people neither of these stances are 'reasonable'. They're mostly petty.

Not to mention for all we know the DRM-free release didn't end up happening due to technical reasons. Stuff happens. But rather than keep an open mind apparently the people who don't have any real insights readily proclaim it's playing favorites and start throwing black marks at the devs rather than having a little patience.
Post edited January 15, 2014 by Pheace
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Niggles: Dude. When people back a KS, everyone assumes ALL backers are ALL treated the same. Yeah. So There are more people using Steam, that doesn't mean the dev should play favorites ( any reasonable person would see it this way) irrespective of the financial realities.
And people who want to buy the game on release feel slighted no matter what you think. Yeah great for dev. Not good for devs reputation with potential customers.
And like i said, they HAD 7 x the goal. they HAD along extended delivery date. They could have used part of extra time to finish things off and treat everyone equally. But they chose not to.

Im not pissed anymore but like everyone else, ill put a blackmark against the dev's name.
Once more, hopefully understandable for all and everyone: we don't know the reason why DRM-free isn't released on the same day / time as the Steam-version. No matter how many made up assumptions are thrown around - we. don't. know.

And yes, some really are acting butthurt on principle. It doesn't matter if it's a big publisher with a AAA-release or a small Indie studio with their first release. The slightest bit not working exactly the way some of you wanted it - butthurt. And since we know you can't do it right for everyone - some will be butthurt. On principle.
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Niggles: So There are more people using Steam, that doesn't mean the dev should play favorites ( any reasonable person would see it this way) irrespective of the financial realities.
And people who want to buy the game on release feel slighted no matter what you think.
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Pheace: Although this clearly is the case for certain people neither of these stances are 'reasonable'. They're mostly petty.

Not to mention for all we know the DRM-free release didn't end up happening due to technical reasons. Stuff happens. But rather than keep an open mind apparently the people who don't have any real insights readily proclaim it's playing favorites and start throwing black marks at the devs rather than having a little patience.
I think its pretty obvious the technical problems is most likely due to steamworks (as some have alluded to and also the dev seems to be steamcentric) - bone headed move as they knew they were providing a drm free version later.
How is it not reasonable to the average person would assume to expect X reward to be supplied on the same day as everyone else?????
They are punishing DRM-free backers only . Game is already cracked . I don't see any reason for wait pirates .
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Niggles:
Because you need to get with the program. Get in line. Wait your turn.

On a lighter note, I guess this just means I'll wait for it to be on sale here at some point in the distant future.
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Silverhawk170485: For Example: Maxis said ...
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Siannah: With all due respect, never, ever, put modders and hackers on the same page again. One is about breaking stuff, the other about adding.
That's not fair, some mods are actually good. ;)