Posted April 07, 2010
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Salsa_Shark
8 Eyed Spy
Registered: Jan 2010
From United States
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Faithful
Brain Freeze
Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted April 07, 2010
No time right now to respond, but it is interesting how this strikes a nerve. Evolution is only good on paper, but saying it gives these things is easy, but how it does is a lot harder.
I will try to respond when I have more time. Interesting topic for sure, but I am not looking for a huge endless debate.
I will try to respond when I have more time. Interesting topic for sure, but I am not looking for a huge endless debate.
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Arteveld
Vote colour.
Registered: Dec 2009
From Poland
Posted April 07, 2010
And i thought this movie depicts Catholicism, not Christianity. Oh well.
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Wishbone
Red herring
Registered: Oct 2008
From Denmark
Posted April 07, 2010
To the best of my knowledge, Catholicism is a part of Christianity.
Also, for anyone interested in evolution (and how complex systems operate in general), I recommend Kevin Kelly's book Out Of Control. It is available, in its entirety, on the author's homepage, albeit only for online reading, not for download. I recommend buying it though. Computer geeks, be aware that the book was written in 1994, so some of the parts dealing with computers and the internet seem somewhat out of date today.
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Gundato
The Peepe
Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted April 07, 2010
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2008/09/1221231343556_t2.jpg)
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2010/04/fb77c59f14991d37964b3191ed1bcd27910d7326_t2.jpg)
So basically, "You talk smack, but I talk facts"? :p
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cogadh
Banned? Never.
Registered: Oct 2008
From United States
Posted April 07, 2010
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2010/04/fb77c59f14991d37964b3191ed1bcd27910d7326_t2.jpg)
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2008/09/1221231343556_t2.jpg)
I don't know what you mean by that, but you seem to have a fundamental lack of understanding of what parody is. The entire cartoon was a parody of exactly what the Christian right has been doing with the whole creationism in schools movement. It is no more offensive than a Weird Al Yankovic song parody. If you fail to see that, then I don't think there is any hope of this discussion going any further.
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Arteveld
Vote colour.
Registered: Dec 2009
From Poland
Posted April 07, 2010
Yeah, i've been both, i know.;P
Just that one is not the other, Catholicism descended from Christianity, but i wouldn't use those two as synonyms. Actually, when i was a Christian, i was, em, how to say this, a bit orthodox, and i took it as an offense when someone told me "you're catholic", or when i met a Catholic who called himself Christian. They are quire different.
Oh, and so i won't OT too much, Creationism at school? Sure, on a class called Religion, that teaches kids about religions, differences in beliefs, history of religion etc.
For example, here in Poland, we have a Constitution that proclaims that Poland is a country with freedom of belief, freedom of speech on the subject of one's beliefs, and it also states that Poland, and all it's offices and public institution, like schools are not religious. Yet in every school You've got that cross hanging on the walls, and Religion classes start with a prayer, and the teacher is a catechist or a priest. You don't learn about Islam, Buddhism and other beliefs. So, yeah, add Creation to a voluntary [if it only speaks for one belief system] religion class, why not.;)
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Gundato
The Peepe
Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted April 07, 2010
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Personally, I feel that "parody" and "satire" are some of the most misunderstood terms out there. People are under the assumption that smiling while you rape and murder someone makes it "funny". Or, more pointedly, that if something is funny, it isn't an attack.
There IS a line between parody and attack. Honestly, Weird Al usually does a good job, but only because he is parodying things people don't care about. Then you have something like South Park, that has often gone beyond humor and parody into outright soapboxing and personal attacks.
Again, how is having KKK members and the Anti-Christ give a lecture on creationism parody? It is just an outright attack in an attempt to make the other side look foolish.
And I am still curious as to how this video summed up the arguments against teaching Creationism :p
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cogadh
Banned? Never.
Registered: Oct 2008
From United States
Posted April 07, 2010
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2010/04/fb77c59f14991d37964b3191ed1bcd27910d7326_t2.jpg)
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2008/09/1221231343556_t2.jpg)
There IS a line between parody and attack. Honestly, Weird Al usually does a good job, but only because he is parodying things people don't care about. Then you have something like South Park, that has often gone beyond humor and parody into outright soapboxing and personal attacks.
Again, how is having KKK members and the Anti-Christ give a lecture on creationism parody? It is just an outright attack in an attempt to make the other side look foolish.
And I am still curious as to how this video summed up the arguments against teaching Creationism :p
Again, you fail to see anything beyond what you perceive as an attack on Christianity and apparently never even bothered to read the stuff I wrote that you were actually responding to. The whole thing IS foolish when you consider that the creationists can't even agree on what should be taught as creationism or which Christian faction's point of view on it should be represented. THAT was the point behind all the different representations of Christianity. On top of that is the whole foolishness of treating creationism as science, which we have already covered ad nauseum and which was represented by the other fictional references that came before your perceived attacks. If someone has to explain the joke to you this much, then either your sense of humor is severely under developed, or you just don't know enough about the topic being parodied to "get" it. I highly recommend you take some time to read up on the whole debate, from both sides of the argument, before you even attempt to get involved in it yourself.
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Gundato
The Peepe
Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted April 07, 2010
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I was not aware that the KKK had a noteably different perspective on how the world started. They may have slightly different beliefs on how the world is, but they still (to my knowledge) are pretty much in agreement with regard to the whole Adam/Eve thing.
As for the "foolishness" regarding treating Creationism as science: pretty sure that is kind of the entire argument itself. Those who follow the scripture of "science" feel that creationism is evil. And vice versa.
But nah, maybe I should read your pamphlets so that I can get the same sense of humor as you. Although, could I suggest you read the pamphlets of those crazy Buddhists to learn what THEY think? And maybe read the pamphlets of them coo-coo-cachoo Muslims to figure out what THEY think.
Hell, isn't that the whole point of this? Having people learn about the beliefs of another group so as to be more tolerant of their beliefs and "jokes"?
Personally, I feel that if that video had stopped on the first Christian speaker, it would have done a pretty good job. It would still be drastically oversimplifying the manner and providing a VERY biased viewpoint, but it would be a great parody of the absurdity of specifically teaching Creationism (although, it would also call into question the absurdity of teaching evolution as a scientific fact, rather than a theory. but whatever :p). But it then felt the need to transition into a bashing of Christianity and an attempt to make them all look like crazy idiots.
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Navagon
Easily Persuaded
Registered: Dec 2008
From United Kingdom
Posted April 07, 2010
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If there were proof of evolution then it would only need be presented and this would be a non-issue, but there is none.
Evolution has been observed. For most that does make this is a non-issue. The problem stems from where it always has done: from blinkered followers who refuse to let go. Unfortunately their numbers are significant enough that they carry significant political sway. They don't like 'Satan's science' so they pay no attention to it.
Why is evolution still considered a theory if it has been observed? Simply because, to science, our understanding of everything in the universe is a theory. Perhaps if you understood what constituted a scientific theory you wouldn't be so quick to write it off.
Evolution may have been observed, but that doesn't mean our understanding of it is perfect. For instance, it was recently discovered that organisms can direct their own evolution through protein chains. It's not all down to random mutations and natural selection as some once thought.
So now the theory has once again been strengthened and improved. But there is always more that can be learned and so a theory it remains. However much it may completely invalidate any creation theory mankind has dreamt up over the millennia.
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cogadh
Banned? Never.
Registered: Oct 2008
From United States
Posted April 07, 2010
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2008/09/1221231343556_t2.jpg)
As for the "foolishness" regarding treating Creationism as science: pretty sure that is kind of the entire argument itself. Those who follow the scripture of "science" feel that creationism is evil. And vice versa.
But nah, maybe I should read your pamphlets so that I can get the same sense of humor as you. Although, could I suggest you read the pamphlets of those crazy Buddhists to learn what THEY think? And maybe read the pamphlets of them coo-coo-cachoo Muslims to figure out what THEY think.
Hell, isn't that the whole point of this? Having people learn about the beliefs of another group so as to be more tolerant of their beliefs and "jokes"?
Personally, I feel that if that video had stopped on the first Christian speaker, it would have done a pretty good job. It would still be drastically oversimplifying the manner and providing a VERY biased viewpoint, but it would be a great parody of the absurdity of specifically teaching Creationism (although, it would also call into question the absurdity of teaching evolution as a scientific fact, rather than a theory. but whatever :p). But it then felt the need to transition into a bashing of Christianity and an attempt to make them all look like crazy idiots.
Wow. you really don't read what anyone other than you writes, do you? Once again, I explained the whole KKK thing to you but you missed it (to recap, the racist creationists think God only created the white race. All other races are of the Devil).
"Foolish" does not equal "evil". Some creationists may see evolution as an "evil" concept (more accurately "blasphemous"), but no rational scientist would ever characterize any idea as "evil". Wrong, maybe even stupid, but not evil.
Now who is being offensive, characterizing whole religions as "crazy" and "coo-coo-cachoo". This entire debate is not about Christianity or any other religion, it is just about creationism vs. evolution. This is where I think your disconnect is occurring. You see a joke about the idea of teaching creationism in schools and the absurdity of the attempts to implement it as an attack against Christianity as a whole. IT IS NOT. It may be an attack against the faction that is pushing for the inclusion of creationism, but it has nothing to do with Christianity itself.
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stonebro
Love Lumberjacks
Registered: Sep 2008
From Netherlands
Posted April 07, 2010
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The story of evolution starts when the first complex molecules (the predecessors to proteins, the basis of all life) evolved by random chance in the earths primordial soup. Certain combinations of molecules were more suitable for longevity and eventually formed increasingly complex structures, ending up in the first single-celled organisms. Which in turn have led to the forming of human beings, of some now feel it's their business to "debate" whether all this really happened or not because it's just so much easier to understand that intelligent design excretion, you know. Don't have to stretch my mind for that one, instead I can go home early and watch Bill O'Reilly.
Isn't life grand?
This is not debatable, unless you choose to ignore the truth. If you do, you have no place in the discussion.
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2008/09/1221231343556_t2.jpg)
And obviously you come in here to spread some fertilizer.
If you can't see it, well, then I guess you're not intelligent enough to see it, or choose to ignore it in order to play devil's advocate. Foolish people have always been confused and / or outraged by intelligent satire.
Post edited April 07, 2010 by stonebro
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Navagon
Easily Persuaded
Registered: Dec 2008
From United Kingdom
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cogadh
Banned? Never.
Registered: Oct 2008
From United States