Yeah but religion is just an excuse for that shit, people would find another reason

He knows what will happen, which is why he tries to alter events to get a different outcome. It's still up to the person to actually do as God asks. If the person doesn't obey God has a contingency plan. For instance, God wanted the Israelites to enter the promised land, but because of their unfaithfulness he sent them wandering in the desert for 40 years until a new, more faithful generation came pass; God's end result was still achieved, just delayed a bit (and when you're an immortal being, waiting 40 human years isn't an issue).

That is true, it just seems that is the excuse most often used.

At the boundaries of human knowledge we see gods. We also have a habit of looking there for excuses to kill each other too. However, if it weren't orchestrated through religion it would be politics and other ideologies. Something which is true enough already.

Gravity strikes again!

-Shakes his fist-

Coelocanth, I understand what you are saying and as I already said I believe education is important, I wasn't even trying to imply that ID and evolution are on the same playing field, hence why I said I was not looking to argue. All I did was give a different view, not something that should be made into a law, it's just something to think about, nothing more. I'm just trying to show that this debate is about more than which is right and which is wrong, it's about what we have the right to tell people they need to know, and that includes things like math, grammar, and history. Now before I get into trouble for sounding like I'm against learning, please realize I never said those things should not be taught or learned. They are important to a persons ability to have a good and productive life and for the benefit of the rest of society, but I don't think that means they are necessary for existence (granted it probably means a much shorter existence). I apologize if I made education sound unimportant, I was only trying to make the point that when it comes down to it, education is used to "encourage" a way of acting on people, even if the knowledge is important for the benefit of the person and for the survival of society and the human race. Whether you believe in ID or evolution doesn't change the idea that people can and have existed without formal education. Just something to think about, but not something I'm saying has to be done.
dawvee and wooglah, I totally agree that education and yes even evolutionary theory have been important to the advancement of society and health and am personally ashamed that through the political power of certain leaders of the Roman Catholic church and other religious powers over the years, has held down the cause of education and knowledge such as during the dark ages. It was wrong, no question, even the God I believe in would not approve of that, though you might disagree with that, but I'm just saying don't blame God (and those that try to follow Him honestly) for things that men claiming to be of God did that are clearly against what the Bible states. Part of the reason we now have knowledge and education is because of the Christian Reformation and the invention of the printing press. Through the printing of Bibles and other books the masses were able to see for themselves that the leaders of the Catholic church were wrong to oppress them and knowledge. Unfortunately, like has happened so many times in history, one good reformation has ended up back into the very thing it tried to reform. But whatever the case I want to say that please don't take what I said to mean that I am against education or knowledge in ANY way, I even think that creationism should not be force to be taught in schools and that I'm even fine with evolution being taught (since there are many truths in it that can help people live longer and better, though I suppose you could say that about many things). Also for any Catholics out there I don't want to sound like I'm saying you're bad in any way, it was certain people that were misguided, and that is still true of any group of people today, so please don't be offended.
Again I don't want to argue, I just wanted to put out an idea to make us think outside the box a bit more, because I believe it is when we get so focused on one point we lose the ability to see the bigger picture and that is when progress stops. Perhaps I am stupid, I'm sorry if what I've said offended anyone, I didn't realize that my thought would be taken so harshly even though I said I wasn't looking to argue or prove evolution or ID right or wrong. I thought the topic of this conversation was whether it should be taught in schools, and so I just wanted us to consider what it even means to teach anything in school. Sorry for the long post.

It's 20-freaking-10, people. Can't we lay this tired old horse to rest? She's been beaten enough...
Evolution is not a 'fact', no. But then, nothing is. 'Fact' is a word for... I was going to say philosophers, or mathematicians, but even then... let's just say it's not a word for science.
Evolution is a word we use to explain why things change over time. Take the following precepts:
Organisms are not identical to their parents, but
Organisms possess traits which are in large part inherited from their parents.
Some organisms are more likely to reproduce than others.
I've yet to find anyone who denies the above. Thus, I've yet to find anyone who denies evolution.
Darrkpheonix? I love you. You know your shit, man.
Is it also worth pointing out that there are fewer self-identified 'scientists' willing to openly support creatonism than there are self-identified scientists willing to support evolution and who are also named Steve?

Quoting this again just because of how awesome it is :)

Epic! :D

What about the laws of motion? All those people thrown through car windows because of inertia when the vehicle stops suddenly

In the beginning was the Game, and the Game was with GOG, and the Game was "GOG"*.
*) Good Old Game
There. Mystery solved! ;)

That doesn't sound all knowing or all powerful to me at all. If I can change the outcome of the future that he sees, then he can't actually see the future at all. Can only make a pretty good guess. Your god sounds like he really isn't all that his supporters say he is.

God does not exist, only we do.