i'd go with sturmovik, better game in all aspects, community is very active and is still producing some quality stuff, you can mod it and engine is better than in rb... The campaign only gives you the illusion of doing something but i've heard that il's modders have done some improvement on that field, didn't play it for too long, can't honestly say if that info is 100% accurate

thanks for the answer, but i am still interested in some more details, for example the comparison of dynamc campaigns (if sturmovik has one)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IL-2_Sturmovik_%28video_game%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Baron_II

well comparisons from fellow gamers are a bit better than some facts about the games without actually comparing them, but thanks anyway ^^

I think one thing that may sway you is the fact that Sturmovik is a newer game, and as such it looks better, and so it will help you to be more immeresed in it I would think. I personally have not played the Red Baron game, though it has been on my wishlist for a long time.

I can say that Sturmovik was the most fun I have had with a aircraft game since Strike Commander CD in the 90's, which I loved. In Sturmovik if memory serves they have a number of different campaigns, and a huge selection of airplanes you can fly, even some that were not really invented (at least in my version, don't know if its the same one as GOG)..and they have some jet planes, and Red Baron of course couldn't have that. In Sturmovik you can advance in rank, though I don't remember about metals, but, I'd guess there would be some.

I think the campaign missions are sort of pass/fail in Sturmovik...I'm not sure it matters how good you do as long as you complete the mission. Truthfully I had the most fun just doing dogfights more than anything, got to love turkey shooting bombers, and out gunning a computer controlled 'Ace'.

Sorry I can't tell you about Red Baron, I have heard that it is a great game, and I too plan to buy it, probably next time its on sale here. But, I have found that once I play a game that is good or nearly as good as an older game, with better graphics, I find myself playing the newer game more...Good luck making your choice, I think either though is probably a great game and you'll have fun with them.

sounds nice, i still need some intel about red baron though, but many thanks for your detailed information

Red Baron 3D is quite dynamic.

You destroy an airport at mission 1, no plane will take off from it for quite a few time. You also have intel on all friendly and enemy squadrons in the area, and all those squadrons have a limited amount of ressources : if you shoot down 3 or 4 Nieuport 11 in one mission as the German, the French will have to fly with older Morane-Saultnier for quite a long time. Similarly, if your squadron loses its bright new planes, you'll have to use (or have your team use) the old planes.

You have pleny of medals, if you are an "ace" you get to have privilege, there are (historical) videos of the "news from the front", ...

Generally speaking, immersion is greater, much greater in RB rather than in Sturmovik.

I played quite a lot, and never noticed any change in (grand) "history" though - you won't allow Germany to win, as far as I know.

Note that Red Baron 3D is heavily bugged if you don't use mods - to a point where it is a pain to play it.

Now, I still prefer Sturmovik, for a variety of reasons, but there is no immersion in Sturmovik and obviously that's what you are looking for.

thank you, i think i now have the info i need, i just have to make up my mind if i put the dynamic campaign and immersion from red baron which both sounds great or the all arround excellency of sturmovik on top of my priority list

both games sound great and i really have a thing for dynamic campaigns, but chances are i still want to get sturmovik, its hard to decide though

They are both great games. The campaign mode in the Red Baron games is what really sets it apart. It has a pretty good and challenging flight model (you can tear wings off, cause structural damage by putting yourself in too steep of a dive or high-g tight turns - WWI planes are fragile boxes of wood and canvas) and once upgraded with a glide wrapper (easy to do), the graphics are actually quite nice. But yeah, the campaign is where Red Baron 3D (and heck even Red Baron 1! :P) really shines.

I actually haven't experienced any bugs in Red Baron 3D (so far) running Win 7. However in order to get the 3D experience you do have to download a glide wrapper otherwise you only get the 2D graphics. I think Red Baron 3D is older (in terms of when it was added to GOG's catalogue) than some of the other titles here, which is why some of the more recently added titles that required Vodoo graphics cards come with a glide wrapper from GOG, but Red Baron 3D doesn't. In fact Zeckensack's wrapper which is what GOG uses works fine with Red Baron 3D. There are others that work as well (DGvoodoo, and another one from a Red Baron community member called CamelJockey).

There is actually still quite an active community for Red Baron 3D with the most recent major projects coming from the Red Baron Redux team at http://redbaron3dofficialsite.com/mission.php. You can check the Red Baron forums either on that site or on GOG for other community mods or add-ons.

IL-2 is a great game too. However, the flight model (especially with all realism options turned on) is much harder than Red Baron's. For one thing, the planes themselves, being WWII planes, are more advanced and have simply many more options to tweak for in-flight performance. Both games can have unforgiving flight models on their highest realism settings, and so when I say that IL-2's is more so, this equivalent to Darth Vader saying that "the Emperor is not as forgiving as I am". They both have options to turn the realism down of course.

There are some GOG denizens who sometimes frequents both IL-2 and Red Baron forums. Wailwulf has a lot of expertise in both games and is probably a good person to whom to address your question. You can find him in either the Red Baron 3D or IL-2 forum. Bottom line: I don't think you'd be disappointed in either game. They are both great. seems I was too late :)

maybe not, your info can still help me decide :)

I like the dynamic campaign in Red Baron a lot. But in every other way, IL-2 is a massively superior flight simulator, with a ton of mods, and it looks fantastic. It has a very good mission builder as well, and you can tweak the dynamic campaign (with a small amount of pain) using a 3rd party tool from www.lowengrin.com.

Get both, I say. But be prepared to learn how to actually fly a plane, or be OK with turning some of the realism off.

thanks again, it really looks like i want to get both