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Metro09: So making a co-op game is such a significant deviation from something like Team Fortress 2 or Counterstrike that it paints them as greedy? If you dislike Valve, more power to you but the logic of your argument makes no sense. I'll admit that producing a sequel a year after the original is a bit untoward but they still give excellent support to TF2 which they've practically given away for free in recent months ($2.50 deals).

Making a co-op game doesn't make them greedy. But coming out with a sequel so soon is a sign. Like I said, Valve is well known for taking it's sweet time in producing games. To me this shows that they are doing things that others have been doing, making sequels of hot series to make some large cash. This is totally their right to do so, but this is a very different way of making content for them.
And then there is the well known screwing of Europeans in their pricing schemes. People always say that the publishers determine this. There is some truth to that, but why do Valve games follow the same pricing policy then?
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mogamer: And then there is the well known screwing of Europeans in their pricing schemes. People always say that the publishers determine this. There is some truth to that, but why do Valve games follow the same pricing policy then?

Because the European economy is different, which people seem to gloss over. I am not making a statement on my agreement with their policy one way or another, but as I understand it they follow the official retail price in all regions and that official price is higher in the European countries they base their prices on. Some countries get screwed in this, which sucks, and most Europeans are smart enough to buy from cheaper outlets which offer discounts or base their prices on other countries' economies like play.com, so cheaper options exist. In the end you either think Steam games are worth the cost or they aren't though, no one is making you buy from there. It says a lot about how awesome Steam is that people complain endlessly about these "unfair" prices rather than just quietly shop at another store, which is what most would do in regards to almost any other game store.
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mogamer: Making a co-op game doesn't make them greedy. But coming out with a sequel so soon is a sign. Like I said, Valve is well known for taking it's sweet time in producing games. To me this shows that they are doing things that others have been doing, making sequels of hot series to make some large cash. This is totally their right to do so, but this is a very different way of making content for them.

The thing with Left 4 Dead 2 is that Turtle Rock basically made the original game themselves and when all of Valve was put on it they realized there were core changes they wanted to make that exceeded the scope of DLC, so they made another game, gave it a lot more content and assumed everyone would be happy with more of a good thing. Of course, they weren't, because PC gamers love to hate their own hobby and act as if paying money for good games is a horrible burden.
The end point is if you liked Left 4 Dead then Left 4 Dead 2 gives you more content than the original, lots of subtle and large improvements on the original as well as two new modes which are arguably the best yet, and all for only $33 if you preordered with the 4-pack like I did, which means it is AWESOME.
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Metro09: How is L4D not 'in the traditional Valve style?' How many games have they developed? Half a dozen?

It could be argued that Valve have developed exactly TWO games.
33$ still seems too much money... and i'm euro... then again, most people don't mind shelling that in games (what a 'bargain!!!11'). To me, that's 33$ ( =22€ roughtly, ATM) in food less in that month...
...its all a matter of personal choice i suppose...
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A-Pock: Nevar!!! I don't buy games with 3rd party DRM on steam.

Huh... technically Steam IS a 3rd party DRM... at least for non-Valve games...
Post edited November 28, 2009 by DarthKaal
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StingingVelvet: It says a lot about how awesome Steam is that people complain endlessly about these "unfair" prices rather than just quietly shop at another store, which is what most would do in regards to almost any other game store.

I wouldn't say it's that people feel that Steam is awesome. Most people don't want more than one download client and since they already have Steam, they want to continue doing so. And most Steam users want digital downloads and don't really want to go back to discs. But I do see more people doing so. As well as using other DD outlets.
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A-Pock: Nevar!!! I don't buy games with 3rd party DRM on steam.

Well then, you have to play DRM roulette with any new releases bought in the first week, because Valve never ever discloses the second layer of DRM until enough suckers, er, "customers" complain about it. Case in point: the retail version of Risen has a humble disc check (so simple the pirates didn't even need to crack it) but unlucky Steam pre-order customers found out the hard way that the Steam version has inexplicably harsher DRM with mandatory online activation and a three-machine activation limit.
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StingingVelvet: It says a lot about how awesome Steam is that people complain endlessly about these "unfair" prices rather than just quietly shop at another store, which is what most would do in regards to almost any other game store.
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mogamer: I wouldn't say it's that people feel that Steam is awesome. Most people don't want more than one download client and since they already have Steam, they want to continue doing so. And most Steam users want digital downloads and don't really want to go back to discs. But I do see more people doing so. As well as using other DD outlets.

Your reply is very funny because you start by saying Steam being awesome is not the reason, but then say it is much better than other DD services and boxed retail. Soooo... yeah, it is awesome, and that is why you complain rather than moving on.
Steam is the de-facto 3rd party gaming software. It beats out GFWL, Xfire, heck, probably even Team Speak. Pretty much anyone who plays PC games either knows about it or has had it installed at some point. As PC gamers are the primary audience for Alienware systems, I don't see this as a big deal.
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A-Pock: Nevar!!! I don't buy games with 3rd party DRM on steam.
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Arkose: Well then, you have to play DRM roulette with any new releases bought in the first week, because Valve never ever discloses the second layer of DRM until enough suckers, er, "customers" complain about it. Case in point: the retail version of Risen has a humble disc check (so simple the pirates didn't even need to crack it) but unlucky Steam pre-order customers found out the hard way that the Steam version has inexplicably harsher DRM with mandatory online activation and a three-machine activation limit.

Out of the nearly 50 games I have on steam, only l4d2 was bought "early" so by the time I get most games there is some kind of warning about other DRM.
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StingingVelvet: Your reply is very funny because you start by saying Steam being awesome is not the reason, but then say it is much better than other DD services and boxed retail. Soooo... yeah, it is awesome, and that is why you complain rather than moving on.

I think the kool-aid must have splashed in your eyes, read what I said. I never said that Steam was better, I said that people already have Steam. People generally dislike change. Most people who have Steam installed want to keep using it because they're used to it. And these same people are now used to getting their games via downloads and don't really want to change now.
And I already have moved on. But I like going to the Steam forums and watch how the fanboys twist themselves into pretzel like figures defending Steam and Valve. That's almost as entertaining as playing Valves games!
Sounds like added inconvenience.
But really, I like Steam. However, I do not like how more and more games are becoming exclusive to Steam. If there is a game that I can download DRM free or on disk, I'll go by those routes. However, you would be insane to not fall in for a couple of Steam's insane deals once in a while.