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spinefarm: Actually at the moment of the disconect MKP made a big mistake and screwed his maroders. He was without army & Parting next to his racks with his whole army.
He had the bank and mining to crank out SOMETHING and 3 stray starports. If even one of them had a tech lab... But yeah, that's unlikely. However - the zealots were at 3 of his rax only because he had built them in the middle of nowhere ;P. There were some production facilities in the main and, in worst case scenario, he could use some SCVs as buffer... though they wouldn't fare well against the zealots.

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spinefarm: To be honest MKP didn't have a chance to get out of this.
Maybe. That's the thing I argue against the least - the momentum had shifted in favor of Parting but with so many bases, some bank left, a little production left... AND a penchant for weird base-trades, MKP could've steered the game into a winnable spot. Hell knows.
Even if so - there were still fine players on the Prime bench. Would they be able to win from a 1:3 position ? I don't know. We can only speculate.

Overall, in my previous, insomnia-fueled post, I was mainly trying to dispel any accusations of foul play, which became too ludicrous for me to remain silent. Yeah, MKP might've had gged back then (though, knowing him, he'd likely fight on at least a while more), Startale ultimately could've won... but we'll never know. I chose to move on and watch later VODs of Code S... The best thing we've learned from this, however, is that Parting is a force to be reckoned with and has a beastly PvT.

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spinefarm: And trust me I like the style of MarineKing over Parting ... damn this guy can separate his troops...
Blah... He's a damn TERRAN :|. I only love him because of his undeniable charm, emotional nature and Kong-line backstory.
Post edited April 23, 2012 by Vestin
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Vestin: snip
With that problem he got the momentum to win the whole TL. And yes MarineKing plays very entertaining for a Terran... Maru is another great example for entertaining Terran.

Who will win Code S this season... ?

So far in top 8 we have:
Quantic_NaNiWa
oGs_SuperNova
Liquid_Hero
IM_MVP

Could NaNiWa make it....?
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Vestin: ...
Haha, you've clearly never seen anyone with the balls to perpetrate their bullshit out in the open. My friend's dad raped her almost openly every day for years, and her sister, and molested his two boys. Looking back at it, it was terribly obvious, but it's not obvious at the time, because when people do wrong, sometimes they are obvious about it, almost in the maniacally laughing cartoon villain manner. So bullshit to your idea that no one would do something "so obvious", if they did it, they probably did it at the last possible minute, probably when it became obvious that they could no longer avoid it.

Also, I never claimed to know much about SC2 competitive but I do know how to god damned read.

The fact that he might have lost if not for a last-minute dropped connection, on the other hand...

StarTale player Won "PartinG" Lee Sak had Lee "MarineKing" Jung Hoon on the ropes. MarineKing's resources were tapped, he had barely any units left to defend himself. It looked as if the man many consider to be one of the world's greatest players was about to go down.The fact that he might have lost if not for a last-minute dropped connection, on the other hand...
So if you want to dick wave about "knowing more about it" you're gonna have to dick wave with that guy.


You're the one trying to prove an absolute (or nearly absolute) "false", all I'm pointing out is it's definitely possible (I do computer and networking work, after all) to fuck with this stuff if you know what you're doing and have access and some people had access. Furthermore the timing is enough to warrant suspicion. To write it off at this stage is laughable, it wouldn't be the first time collusion or cheating between staff and players was found out at a sporting event.

Being cynical enough to suspect stuff like this doesn't quite qualify for the label of paranoid schizophrenic around here, I live in the US after all, where even our government regularly cheats and does nasty shit on a rather regular basis.

I hope for nice features too, but LAN isn't much of an extra "perk" in a game like this, you practically have to do more work to make sure it's not possible than to just put it in. It's not really bitching or entitlement to demand a feature that's as bread and butter to the genre as keyboard shortcuts. Or would you defend the removal of those too? You know, for e-sports reasons.
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orcishgamer: if they did it, they probably did it at the last possible minute, probably when it became obvious that they could no longer avoid it.
But
1) WHO ?
2) WHY ?
3) HOW ?
As I've pointed out - there are no people who would've been be desperate enough. Who would manipulate the situation ? Gerard, the Prime coach ? In Las Vegas ? In front of a huge audience ? By forcing a connection drop (through other people) in a single match ?
This doesn't even work in any way if his team (in this case - MKP) isn't good enough to win not only the rematch but gain all the 5 points. Through solid, honest play.
Never mind the fact that those people don't even have a good enough grasp of the English language - the team league, on top of all of that, isn't even as prestigious as the individual one.

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orcishgamer: Also, I never claimed to know much about SC2 competitive but I do know how to god damned read.
OK - you've picked the only thing I didn't feel strongly about and then argued against it via third-person narration. Sure - MarineKing was in a word of hurt. For one - I've seen people come back from worse situations... but that's irrelevant. Let's assume his situation was VERY tough. This doesn't affect anything else I've said.

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orcishgamer: You're the one trying to prove an absolute (or nearly absolute) "false"
Thing is - I don't have to prove anything. The "onus" is on you to prove the existence of some elaborate conspiracy that was at play there. In my eyes - that was a freak accident.

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orcishgamer: all I'm pointing out is it's definitely possible (I do computer and networking work, after all)
And in this field I recognize and yield unquestionably to your authority. This does not apply, however, to your statements regarding human nature and the like.

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orcishgamer: it wouldn't be the first time collusion or cheating between staff and players was found out at a sporting event.
I what you are suggesting was true, it would be the most elaborate scheme in e-sports history for the most pathetically uncertain expected gains.
To make this work, the number of people involved would have to be substantial, the results - unpredictable and the execution extremely public.
Oh - I haven't mentioned the risks involved - if such a thing ever got out, the team would be doomed. Why the f*** risk such a thing (not to mention, you know, the reputation and self-respect losses involved) if MPK was recently crushing face anyway ? An honest second-place beats a cheated win any day of the week.

From all points of view, even the most cold-heartedly pragmatic ones, this makes very little sense. If it does to you - tell me WHO planned WHAT, WHEN and WHY.

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orcishgamer: Being cynical enough to suspect stuff like this doesn't quite qualify for the label of paranoid schizophrenic around here
Define "like this". Schemes and dishonesty I can deal with - a very cynical man once taught me "to acknowledge the existence of conspiracies is merely to claim that not everything is done overtly". THIS particular case, however, is a grotesque mess of baseless accusation aimed at Logos knows who.
Keep in mind - this is coming from a guy whose favorite game is "Max Payne", favorite tabletop RPG is "World of Darkness", who finds "Secret World" irresistable, Kafka an amazing read and "Gabriel Knight" a wonderful adventure game series. I'm more willing to believe you if you said that the weird shit at Point Pleasant was cause by IRL vampires a'la the Masquarade or Requiem than to buy into to that lovely kid, MPK or Gerard, an ex-pro and a respected coach... or GOMTV staff... or IPL tech guys...
No. Just - no.


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orcishgamer: I live in the US after all, where even our government regularly cheats and does nasty shit on a rather regular basis.
I'd say that I have faith in your government but this is, obviously, outside my area of expertise...

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orcishgamer: LAN isn't much of an extra "perk" in a game like this
Look - I don't really want to get into this but there are reasons LAN isn't in this game, not the least of which would be a quarrel between Blizzard and the Korean E-Sports Association. As they finally came to an agreement, things like this become more likely to happen... But you know what ? It's not THAT necessary. What is, though, is a way to reconnect after being dropped from the game - as pointed out by the article, me, you... So - screw LAN and all its goodness.

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orcishgamer: as bread and butter to the genre as keyboard shortcuts. Or would you defend the removal of those too? You know, for e-sports reasons.
The funny thing is - you have no idea how close you are to actual arguments tossed around during the dark days of alpha.
I'm not kidding - there were people who thought that being able to select more than 12 units or more than one building at the same time were "dumbing the game down for casuals" and nobody would play such an easy game... certainly - not as an esport.
But don't worry - they came around ;).