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Currently I work giving computer maintenance in an office with about 300 PC. All of them wired to the network. In 5 years can count with the fingers of one hand the times I've seen a NIC going nuts spontaneously.

I've seem them die, drivers go nuts, the TCP stack go south... a lot of problems, but all of them were FROM BOOT. If a NIC is working in a session, it will continue working (except if it die, of course) 'till the next reboot. THEN it won't work.

By the way, do you know that you don't need to unplug anything to disable a Ethernet port in a managed switch?
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nagytow: Why do people cry so much about LAN? It was popular in the past but nowadays nearly everyone's got a broadband connection.
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orcishgamer: Maybe the issue in linked articles could provide a clue...
If you read the articles you'd know that it was an issue with a PC, not the BN itself. Even LAN wouldn't have helped. Feel free to respond with a conspiracy theory now :)
Post edited April 21, 2012 by nagytow
And apparently there is a unofficial version of Starcraft 2 with LAN.
Not sure if it works as I haven't downloaded it, but in the comments there are people saying it works.
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orcishgamer: Maybe the issue in linked articles could provide a clue...
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nagytow: If you read the articles you'd know that it was an issue with a PC, not the BN itself. Even LAN wouldn't have helped. Feel free to respond with a conspiracy theory now :)
I already said I do not put much faith in them not lying about the source of the issue, they straight up lied on stage in the linked video. Is that a conspiracy theory too?

They are probably lying about the source of the issue. The fact remains, even if they weren't, that this shit can and will happen in the future. They've introduced an unnecessary dependency into the tourneys, it's one more problem point and it will go wrong. It probably went wrong here and we're hearing some cockamamie bullshit because the promoters are so dependent on Blizzard's good will. This is a PR disaster, you don't think Blizzard was on the phone instantly?
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orcishgamer: ...
Indeed. I do work with networks for quite a while now and it has never, in my life, happened that a wired connection between two computers with a quality network adapters would go down. I cannot even imagine what would cause such a failure, besides physically cutting power or unplugging the cable.
Blame it on the PC, believing it would have happened with LAN too as much as you want.
The picture of StarCraft II lead designer Dustin Browder and his reaction terminates every "conspiracy theory" rejection. :p
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nagytow: Why do people cry so much about LAN? It was popular in the past but nowadays nearly everyone's got a broadband connection.
Because it has nothing to do with the amount of bandwidth and everything to do with the latency and the extra things that can go down.

Where I'm from the latency on all the options is abysmal which means that if I want to try competitive play, it's just not going to happen. Worse are the people who live in the middle of nowhere and are only connected via satellite.

You can get a pretty damn good switch for $20 these days and the cables aren't that much more and have some pretty kick ass 3 player multiplayer action, unfortunately, you can't really do that as you would all have to be connected through the same ISP and you'd all suffer the problems related to that.
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orcishgamer: ...
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Fenixp: Indeed. I do work with networks for quite a while now and it has never, in my life, happened that a wired connection between two computers with a quality network adapters would go down. I cannot even imagine what would cause such a failure, besides physically cutting power or unplugging the cable.
Routers sometimes will if you try to throw too much data at them, but even then it's not something that I've seen happen very often and usually it's something else that's the ultimate problem.

Considering that this is tournament play in an esport, I would assume that the equipment would be fairly new and mostly just tested rather than used extensively so there shouldn't be any problems with the hardware.
Post edited April 21, 2012 by hedwards
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hedwards: snip
That was my point earlier. The computers they use for this tournaments are tested so many times. It just feels strange - the timing of this drop is so in favor of MarineKing.
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orcishgamer: Snip.
Hmm... Even if it was a problem with the BN: almost 2 years since the release and only 1 major failure. I guess people can live with that, especially if you consider how many of similar tournaments take place every year.

If it was a problem with Windows would you shout 'SC2 for Linux?' If it was confirmed to be a problem with a PC would you shout 'SC2 on consoles'? I think people need to chill out. A simple option which allow to reconnect dropped players would be more than enough.

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hedwards: Snip.
While I don't agree with bandwidth argument (SC2 doesn't send or receive that much data), I understand the latency problem. That could be a valid point, however I still think that LAN is a thing of the past. Who'd want to play with the same people over and over when you've got a whole BN to play with? :)
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hedwards: Snip.
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nagytow: While I don't agree with bandwidth argument (SC2 doesn't send or receive that much data), I understand the latency problem. That could be a valid point, however I still think that LAN is a thing of the past. Who'd want to play with the same people over and over when you've got a whole BN to play with? :)
I don't think you knwo what agree means. You say you don't agree because SC2 doesn't send or receive as much data. How, precisely does that disprove the notion that the bandwidth is irrelevant.

You'd be surprised how many people wouldn't want to play complete strangers over the net, but would want to play people they know. Plus, have you not heard of LAN parties? I see people rationalizing these sorts of dumbass decisions and the fact is that there are people who can't or won't play online with strangers. Not to mention the times like on deployment where you might have access to a LAN, but not the internet.

It's significantly more interesting to beat people you know and see regularly. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Or perhaps the times when the internet is down, but not the power.
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hedwards: You'd be surprised how many people wouldn't want to play complete strangers over the net, but would want to play people they know. Plus, have you not heard of LAN parties? I see people rationalizing these sorts of dumbass decisions and the fact is that there are people who can't or won't play online with strangers. Not to mention the times like on deployment where you might have access to a LAN, but not the internet.

It's significantly more interesting to beat people you know and see regularly. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Uh, no LAN doesn't preclude playing with friends does it?
Q. Can I play a match with other players who have the full game? Can I create a match with a friend?

A. Yes. StarCraft II players with a full game license can join a custom game on the Starter Edition maps to play with Starter Edition players. You may play matches with friends by simply creating a custom game on a trial map and using the game invite functionality to invite friends to the game.
Don't most LAN parties have internet these days anyway? (Although I think some leave it out so not everyone is playing World of Warcraft)

Yes, the rare occasion where you might be without internet LAN would have been nice, assuming you had a local multicomputer setup standing ready.
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orcishgamer: I already said I do not put much faith in them not lying about the source of the issue, they straight up lied on stage in the linked video. Is that a conspiracy theory too?
I think you're right. Openly blaming Blizzard would be bad for them so they had to find an excuse.
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hedwards: Snip.
Yeah, LAN parties were fun... like 20 years ago or so ;) On BN you can create private games just for you and your mates so it changes nothing imho.

Ok then, how exactly your bandwidth affects your playing experience? People have reported being able to play with no lags on connection limited to 32Kbps or so. There are even some people who tether their iPhones to their laptops and are still able to play. So yeah, bandwidth is irrelevant.
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hedwards: Snip.
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nagytow: Yeah, LAN parties were fun... like 20 years ago or so ;) On BN you can create private games just for you and your mates so it changes nothing imho.

Ok then, how exactly your bandwidth affects your playing experience? People have reported being able to play with no lags on connection limited to 32Kbps or so. There are even some people who tether their iPhones to their laptops and are still able to play. So yeah, bandwidth is irrelevant.
I'm not sure whether your trolling or being obtuse.

Bandwidth shouldn't affect your playing experience at all beyond the time it takes to load up a map. You pay for more bandwidth so that you don't spend so much time waiting. With something like a multiplayer game you shouldn't be needing data so fast that you can't download quickly enough, even at 1.5mbps or lower speed.

As far as LAN play, of course something has changed and you'd have to be fairly obtuse not to recognize it. With the older LAN option the only way that you could be deprived of the game is if your friends weren't there or your own hardware broke. With Internet only play, there are tons of other things which can break where you're not going to have any control.

What's worse, if somebody steals your CD key, there's the possibility that Blizzard will come down and stop you from playing. Unless, I'm greatly mistaken, that used to be a problem with battlenet back in the '90s when people were using stolen keys to log in.
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hedwards: You'd be surprised how many people wouldn't want to play complete strangers over the net, but would want to play people they know. Plus, have you not heard of LAN parties? I see people rationalizing these sorts of dumbass decisions and the fact is that there are people who can't or won't play online with strangers. Not to mention the times like on deployment where you might have access to a LAN, but not the internet.

It's significantly more interesting to beat people you know and see regularly. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
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Pheace: Uh, no LAN doesn't preclude playing with friends does it?
First off, I assume you mean exclude or prevent. If I'm wrong the rest of this post isn't going to make any sense.

The point is, that you're giving up all of the benefits of using a LAN and gaining all of the downsides of playing online. Yes, I guess you can do your own private games, but by the same token, doing exactly what you would have been doing otherwise with a significantly worse set of options isn't something that I would regard as defensible.

It might make sense for Blizzard, but it's just like the Multiplayer only D3 has precisely zero to do with creating a compelling product and everything to do with Blizzard telling people how and where they can play.

What's more the whole think represents a disincentive to people playing from the same room as now you've got to route all of those people through the same ISP and back, adding latency in the meantime.

Bah, I say bah.
Post edited April 22, 2012 by hedwards
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hedwards: Snip.
Ok, so how does your bandwidth affect your SC2 experience? Please explain, because I really don't understand your argument. I just gave the proof that you can play on BN with basically any type of connection. Obviously you must have some other experience so please, I'm all ears (eyes).

Serial key is a completely different story. If you have a game, then you have a box, manual and you can provide them with the photos. Many things have changed since 90s. Blizzard's customer service is really nice and helpful (although quite slow at times).

It's obvious that the BN is more prone to failures than LAN. But BN is one of the most stable services out there.