It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
cogadh: I haven't actually played any of the Fallout games so I can't really speak for their quality.
avatar
michaelleung: HOW COULD YOU?

They never seemed to appeal to me. When they showed up on GOG, I considered getting them, but I haven't really felt the need to, they have plenty of other games that I was much more interested in.
avatar
cogadh: I find it funny that Trekkies (or Fallout fans) would be so protective of their "niche market" anyway. Do you think the creators of Trek (or Fallout) originally set out to make a show (or game) for a niche market? No, they tried to make a broadly appealing and marketable product. Whether they succeeded at that is debatable, but doesn't change the fact that they are continuing to try and make a broadly appealing and marketable product. If they do that and the movie (or game) is still good, then where is the problem?

You ask why it is wrong to try to appeal to mass market?
guess what this is :):
1. Poker Face - Lady Gaga (PCM Interview)
2. Gives You Hell - All-American Rejects (PCM interview)
3. Boom Boom Pow - Black Eyed Peas
4. Love, Sex and Magic - Ciara & Justin Timberlake
5. Circus - Britney Spears
6. My Life Would Suck Without You - Kelly Clarkson
7. Lucky - Jason Mraz and Colbie Caillet
8. Right Round - Flo-Rida
9. Love Story - Taylor Swift
10. 1,2,3,4 - Plain White T's
this is the list for ten most popular songs of april 2009 i found on internet randomly. I have no idea how accurate that list is but I really doubt it is far from truth.
I just know three artist from there: Clarkson, Spears, Timberlake. These three artists are very popular, they appeal to masses. I didn't want fallout to be liked by these people who enjoy Miss Spears hits. Nor do Star Trek fans want to see their beloved franchise being the next fad.
avatar
lukaszthegreat: I didn't want fallout to be liked by these people who enjoy Miss Spears hits. Nor do Star Trek fans want to see their beloved franchise being the next fad.

IMHO this attitude is exactly why the film industry is doing nothing but cookie-cutter remakes and adaptations, and no one dares do anything new, innovative or original, for fear that it would disappoint the fans of that material or that it wouldn't appeal to the masses.
This way everyone stays in their own little niche and everyone's happy, right?
But there's nothing inherently wrong in appealing to a broader market, as long as you treat the material you're using with respect and you don't dumb it down.
Think for example Watchmen (the movie): it's based off one of the most complex (graphic) novels of all time and, until last year, everyone thought it was unfilmable.
Yet they managed to make a movie that's fantastic, original and faithfull to the source, without dumbing down the source material or making a movie that only the fans could enjoy.
IMHO, sometimes, when it's done right, going mainstream is good :)
avatar
Weclock: two things:
what I heard is that the trek fans are complaining that too many non-fans of the series will like the movie, I don't see this as a bad thing.
avatar
cogadh: I've honestly never understood that attitude of Trek fans. Why shouldn't "non-Trekkies" like it?

The attitude is known as "snobbery." It is a staple of the discussion of games, and it doesn't surprise me that it would be present in the Trekkie community as well.
avatar
cogadh: I've honestly never understood that attitude of Trek fans. Why shouldn't "non-Trekkies" like it?
avatar
Syme: The attitude is known as "snobbery." It is a staple of the discussion of games, and it doesn't surprise me that it would be present in the Trekkie community as well.

Some call it "snobbery", others like to think of it as "keeping the grubby little hands of the unwashed off of our stuff".....
avatar
cogadh: I find it funny that Trekkies (or Fallout fans) would be so protective of their "niche market" anyway. Do you think the creators of Trek (or Fallout) originally set out to make a show (or game) for a niche market? No, they tried to make a broadly appealing and marketable product. Whether they succeeded at that is debatable, but doesn't change the fact that they are continuing to try and make a broadly appealing and marketable product. If they do that and the movie (or game) is still good, then where is the problem?
avatar
lukaszthegreat: You ask why it is wrong to try to appeal to mass market?
guess what this is :):
1. Poker Face - Lady Gaga (PCM Interview)
2. Gives You Hell - All-American Rejects (PCM interview)
3. Boom Boom Pow - Black Eyed Peas
4. Love, Sex and Magic - Ciara & Justin Timberlake
5. Circus - Britney Spears
6. My Life Would Suck Without You - Kelly Clarkson
7. Lucky - Jason Mraz and Colbie Caillet
8. Right Round - Flo-Rida
9. Love Story - Taylor Swift
10. 1,2,3,4 - Plain White T's
this is the list for ten most popular songs of april 2009 i found on internet randomly. I have no idea how accurate that list is but I really doubt it is far from truth.
I just know three artist from there: Clarkson, Spears, Timberlake. These three artists are very popular, they appeal to masses. I didn't want fallout to be liked by these people who enjoy Miss Spears hits. Nor do Star Trek fans want to see their beloved franchise being the next fad.

Where is it written that if someone likes Britney Spears music they can't possibly also appreciate a good game or Trek movie? Tastes in music, movies and games are incredibly subjective and just because someone might like the music that you hate does not automatically exclude them from being "worthy" of the games or movies you also like (I mean "you" in the general sense, not you in particular). In the end, as long as the music/movie/game is good (in your opinion) and you like it, were is the problem?
I've seen so many bad Star Trek episodes and so many variations on film and tv, so this doesn't have to live up to much.
I liked the original series, TNG and DS9 (I may be the only one to enjoy DS9!), and never got into Voyager or Enterprise. I also enjoyed the majority of the films. I think I may like this new film, and if it gets rid of a little star trek hatred, so much the better.
On JJ Abrams, I like Lost and thought MI:3 was okay, but I hated Cloverfield with a passion. But I think he gets the benefit of the doubt on this one. The studio seems to think so, since the sequel is already being looked at.
hey, I frequently watch stuff like thomas the tank engine, while playing a game of painkiller, or something similar.
I don't watch thomas the tank engine for my own interest, but for my kids.
Also andy, I think DS9 rocks.
:)
Of course if done right movie which uses a niche concept but appeals to masses is a good thing.
but the point is that trekkies have right to be worried because going mainstream often means dumbing down, retcons and making it 'cool'? (fallout 3, DBZ movie). Oh. i don't believe it will happen this time, just to be clear.
@Grog
Because I believe hollywod should stay away from adaptations and remakes it is the reason why they do nothing but remakes and adaptations ?
I don't get your argument. can you please explain?
avatar
cogadh: In the end, as long as the music/movie/game is good (in your opinion) and you like it, were is the problem?

See JudasIscariot's post above yours.
avatar
cogadh: In the end, as long as the music/movie/game is good (in your opinion) and you like it, were is the problem?
avatar
Syme: See JudasIscariot's post above yours.

I know what it is, I just fail to see the point of it. I am a huge Trek fan and I am sure I have been guilty of this same kind of snobbery myself, but when the new Battlestar Galactica came on the air and my wife, of all people, began watching it and enjoying it with me, I began to wonder "Why wouldn't we geeks want other people to enjoy the same things as us?" As long as they don't make the end product an awful mess, which from early appearances, this new Trek movie is not, then all we are doing is being elitist and exclusionary for the sake of being elitist and exclusionary and that is utterly pointless.
I like old Britney Spears and Fallout as much as the next one. (The new stuff Britney Spears puts out, not so much)
avatar
Syme: See JudasIscariot's post above yours.
avatar
cogadh: I know what it is, I just fail to see the point of it. I am a huge Trek fan and I am sure I have been guilty of this same kind of snobbery myself, but when the new Battlestar Galactica came on the air and my wife, of all people, began watching it and enjoying it with me, I began to wonder "Why wouldn't we geeks want other people to enjoy the same things as us?" As long as they don't make the end product an awful mess, which from early appearances, this new Trek movie is not, then all we are doing is being elitist and exclusionary for the sake of being elitist and exclusionary and that is utterly pointless.

Beause some of them might enjoy it for the "wrong" reasons.
avatar
lukaszthegreat: You ask why it is wrong to try to appeal to mass market?
guess what this is :):
1. Poker Face - Lady Gaga (PCM Interview)
2. Gives You Hell - All-American Rejects (PCM interview)
3. Boom Boom Pow - Black Eyed Peas
4. Love, Sex and Magic - Ciara & Justin Timberlake
5. Circus - Britney Spears
6. My Life Would Suck Without You - Kelly Clarkson
7. Lucky - Jason Mraz and Colbie Caillet
8. Right Round - Flo-Rida
9. Love Story - Taylor Swift
10. 1,2,3,4 - Plain White T's
this is the list for ten most popular songs of april 2009 i found on internet randomly. I have no idea how accurate that list is but I really doubt it is far from truth.
I just know three artist from there: Clarkson, Spears, Timberlake. These three artists are very popular, they appeal to masses. I didn't want fallout to be liked by these people who enjoy Miss Spears hits. Nor do Star Trek fans want to see their beloved franchise being the next fad.

Heh. I used to be just like you when i was at school/college. Always sneering at those idiots listening to mainstream (pah!) music. then i grew up and realised that i was being a dumb snobby teenager.
What does it matter if people like britney spears. Or if they get pleaure from kinds of music that I'm not so into. Heck, when i opened my mind a little i started to appreciate the skill it takes to make a catchy pop song.
There was an interesting study about music fans vs personality types: it showed that most people who are into "cool" music (indie/rock/metal/whatever...) had low self esteem. People who listen to pop have high self esteem.... so maybe they don't worry about being cool, and just listen to what they like.
I've enjoyed a few trek things over the years... but trekkies are such insecure snobs that i'm not really sure i want to admit that...
"Some people don't dance, if they don't know who's singing,
why ask your head, it's your hips that are swinging"
avatar
Andy_Panthro: (I may be the only one to enjoy DS9!)

UNTRUE!!! I too loved DS9, although it was no Babylon 5 :P
avatar
soulgrindr: There was an interesting study about music fans vs personality types: it showed that most people who are into "cool" music (indie/rock/metal/whatever...) had low self esteem. People who listen to pop have high self esteem.... so maybe they don't worry about being cool, and just listen to what they like.

I can't believe there was a study for that. They probably spent on a fortune on it too. Those genres have always catered to the realm of "outsiders and misunderstood", which mostly have self esteem issues in one form or another.
With that said, don't assume that media based snobbery only flows one way. Those in the high self esteem category are just as guilty of ostracizing those in the low self esteem bracket as well. They may not care what bands you listen to, but they sure do seem to care that you're a part of the group of people that listens to "those" bands.
People are pricks no matter what they listen to, watch or read.
Post edited April 14, 2009 by TapeWorm