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hedwards: That's a crap rationalization. Walking across the street with my eyes closed is less hazardous than jumping out of an aircraft with a possibly improperly packed parachute and failing to check to see that it is properly packed.

Just because something is less hazardous does not imply that it's wrongly considered to be dangerous, it could be, as I would argue in this case it is, that alcohol should be banned for being unsafe.

The reason in this case that alcohol isn't banned is because it's such a cultural thing to drink that nobody was willing to obey the law when the US had prohibition. Safety has nothing to do with it being legal.

Thanks for linking that. The problem with LSD is that it may or may not cause damage to the receptor site and there's no particular way of knowing when the receptor site will be repaired.

I will grant you that it's rather unlikely for there to be sizable damage and certainly not life long damage. But, antipsychotics serve a medical purpose. Whereas LSD has yet to be shown effective in the treatment of any medical disorder that I'm aware of.
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GhostQlyph: Also all of my this.
One of the reasons I refuse to hang out with pot smokers even now that it's legal under state law, is that I've sobered up and no longer find this sort of infantile logic to be endearing.

The debate about drugs should be on their merits and, as much as possible, the research data.
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GhostQlyph: Also all of my this.
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hedwards: One of the reasons I refuse to hang out with pot smokers even now that it's legal under state law, is that I've sobered up and no longer find this sort of infantile logic to be endearing.

The debate about drugs should be on their merits and, as much as possible, the research data.
I agree. But in order to do that there needs to be more room for studies to be done.... there isn't much room at all for this at the moment, which is why most studies cited on LSD and such come from the 70s.
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hedwards: One of the reasons I refuse to hang out with pot smokers even now that it's legal under state law, is that I've sobered up and no longer find this sort of infantile logic to be endearing.

The debate about drugs should be on their merits and, as much as possible, the research data.
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GhostQlyph: I agree. But in order to do that there needs to be more room for studies to be done.... there isn't much room at all for this at the moment, which is why most studies cited on LSD and such come from the 70s.
It's a tough thing to do. The theory under which the LSD was used back then has long since been set aside as being hokum, so at least as far as using it for psychotherapy, there's no reason to investigate.

Now, I suppose there could be some other medical use for it, but definitely not for psychology. Repressed memories don't exist and a great deal of harm has been done to patients over the years on that basis. Thankfully, the profession recognizes that repressed memories can't be retrieve and are focused on real memories.
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GhostQlyph: I agree. But in order to do that there needs to be more room for studies to be done.... there isn't much room at all for this at the moment, which is why most studies cited on LSD and such come from the 70s.
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hedwards: It's a tough thing to do. The theory under which the LSD was used back then has long since been set aside as being hokum, so at least as far as using it for psychotherapy, there's no reason to investigate.

Now, I suppose there could be some other medical use for it, but definitely not for psychology. Repressed memories don't exist and a great deal of harm has been done to patients over the years on that basis. Thankfully, the profession recognizes that repressed memories can't be retrieve and are focused on real memories.
Oh, that was hogwash. The study I mentioned above about schizophrenia and other rare mental illnesses is a lot different -- it's actual chemical action. I believe a group of Netherlands researchers were the ones to do it, in I think it was '08. I'll see if I can pull the paper on it for you, if you're interested.
all developed countries do some crap on own citizens
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora
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darkplanetar: all developed countries do some crap on own citizens
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora
Good thing then that our politicians are more worried about getting rich then to give a crap about the rest of the population :)
All I know about the drug issue, it doesn't matter how many laws you make to criminalize it, there are people that will want to escape from their shitty lives and get high. There are ways to protect the part of the public that wants to abstain form drugs and their effects on society. Such as, creating a red light district or even a drug hotel/spa. You have to check in to a hotel/crack house to get high, but you have to check out sober to keep the rest of society safe from you. You are not going to keep people from using, you might as well make society a little safer.

My apologies for innocently derailing this thread, SOPA has become one of those subjects I am sick of hearing about. It's going to get pushed through no matter how many times it has to pass through congress. The only thing stopping it these last few times has been the amount of bribes...er donations has been a little light. Once our politicians have the correct amount of change in their bank accounts, this will be rubber stamped like all the other anti-consumer bills that have been passed. No amount of bellyaching from us geeks and society that is paying attention will matter to the grand scheme of things. We are very few, as opposed to the many apathetic voters.
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hedwards: It's a tough thing to do. The theory under which the LSD was used back then has long since been set aside as being hokum, so at least as far as using it for psychotherapy, there's no reason to investigate.

Now, I suppose there could be some other medical use for it, but definitely not for psychology. Repressed memories don't exist and a great deal of harm has been done to patients over the years on that basis. Thankfully, the profession recognizes that repressed memories can't be retrieve and are focused on real memories.
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GhostQlyph: Oh, that was hogwash. The study I mentioned above about schizophrenia and other rare mental illnesses is a lot different -- it's actual chemical action. I believe a group of Netherlands researchers were the ones to do it, in I think it was '08. I'll see if I can pull the paper on it for you, if you're interested.
My only real issue with most psychotropic medications is that they're at best addressing a symptom of the underlying cause. And for the time being that's far better than nothing, but going into the future there's going to need to be a lot of work done to determine the underlying cause and address that.

Ultimately, for people who just have minor issues, the drugs are probably not worth the risk, but for people with more severe problems, even with those side effects, the medications are life savers.

The thing that always baffled me was how my pot smoking friends could judge me for taking medications when they were pumping themselves full of that crap. Seems hypocritical to say the least.
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jjsimp: All I know about the drug issue, it doesn't matter how many laws you make to criminalize it, there are people that will want to escape from their shitty lives and get high. There are ways to protect the part of the public that wants to abstain form drugs and their effects on society. Such as, creating a red light district or even a drug hotel/spa. You have to check in to a hotel/crack house to get high, but you have to check out sober to keep the rest of society safe from you. You are not going to keep people from using, you might as well make society a little safer.

My apologies for innocently derailing this thread, SOPA has become one of those subjects I am sick of hearing about. It's going to get pushed through no matter how many times it has to pass through congress. The only thing stopping it these last few times has been the amount of bribes...er donations has been a little light. Once our politicians have the correct amount of change in their bank accounts, this will be rubber stamped like all the other anti-consumer bills that have been passed. No amount of bellyaching from us geeks and society that is paying attention will matter to the grand scheme of things. We are very few, as opposed to the many apathetic voters.
Wouldn't it make more sense then to just clean up society? Escapism is the worst reason to do drugs. Look at the people with serious drug problems and it's a pretty good bet that they're running from something.
Post edited August 27, 2013 by hedwards
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hedwards: Wouldn't it make more sense then to just clean up society? Escapism is the worst reason to do drugs. Look at the people with serious drug problems and it's a pretty good bet that they're running from something.
It would be, but no matter what you do, there are always going to be people that want to get high. They will find away, meth is a good example of that. I think prohibition should have taught this country a thing or two about that, but alas it hasn't. For the record, I am not a drug user legal or not. I have problems with even taking motrin, though I do it, but I don't hold that against other people that use whatever they want so long as it doesn't affect me.
Hey peeps, this is an international "civil unrest/protest" map. As you can see, Poland is one happy place:

http://johnb30.cartodb.com/viz/ffd5eeb6-ee20-11e2-8fd0-3085a9a956e8/embed_map?title=false&description=true&search=false&shareable=true&cartodb_logo=true&layer_selector=false&scrollwheel=true&sublayer_options=1&sql=&zoom=2&center_lat=-0.004273915238222043&center_lon=-8.0859375
Post edited August 28, 2013 by keeveek
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keeveek: ...
You guys are not fed well enough to protest.