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General discussion (archive)Sometimes being nice doesnt pay off(186 posts)(186 posts)
(186 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 08, 2013
I did the same thing to my family, who aren't just big time Christians, but Catholics - much worse. I was 17 at the time, and I was forced to keep going to church 'till the day I turned 18. I tried to be as respectful as possible, and it sucked big time. the thing is though in the end, it was worth it. I'm out of the house but we all still get along well, even if our views differ. I still bear a little resentment that they couldn't accept my choice, but no one is perfect.

Atheist or Christian, I think we all owe our families some kindness and patience, even when it sucks. (Note:I don't mean to bend over backwards for them, just to bear some crap from them with a smile)
Posted February 08, 2013
A good action always find its punishment.. :)
Posted February 08, 2013
I'm an Atheist, my husband is Christian.
Strangely enough so far I've never felt the need to tell him that "everything he believes in sucks" nor does he feel the need to convert me.
In my opinion Atheism is not about running around and telling people they are "wrong". If it was it wouldn't be better than any religious fundamentalism.
State your belief or non-belief as a matter of fact ("I'm an Atheist." "I'm a Christian." or whatever) and leave it at that. If people have questions about your (non-)belief try to answer them politely. From my experience that works quite well.
Posted February 08, 2013
Don't underestimate the value of peace. It's nice being able to talk to your family even if you don't see eye to eye on everything.
Posted February 08, 2013
Me: Libertarian Atheist who is a Texas native in college fixing to turn 19.
Family: Rush Limbaugh's model American citizens.

I know how you feel.
Posted February 08, 2013
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deathknight1728: I know that believing in this isnt as bad as it used to be, but its still considered a shunned view.
You mean, believing that there is no God? Oh boy. Y'know, USA's a great nation and all, but some of the views there seem really badly dated. Most civil countries and the residents within don't give two shits about what another person thinks of this divine stuff. And they keep their own believes to themselves as well, which is the way it should be. But looking someone funny because they DON'T believe in God? ....hahahahah. Well, of course there's the really loud group in every country, the ones whose life apparently depend on everyone "getting saved", but in America that cry seems to be the loudest. Well, maybe one day they too will have the courage to step into the 21st century and at least question the fairytale that started over 2000 years ago by who knows what kind of root-gnawing primitives.

Don't mean to bash on anyone's religion, I just find it silly if everyone's not entitled to their opinion. I have my views, everyone else has theirs. Screw you if you think I "believe wrong".
Posted February 08, 2013
Many people wrestle with the same problems. I was able to sort my mind by listening to the Atheist Experience show on YouTube. Maybe you might check it out.

https://www.youtube.com/user/theatheistexperience
Posted February 08, 2013
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deathknight1728: I know some people would flat out tell their sister/mother that everything they believe in sucks, but I am not an asshole and I will not do that... I dont know, sometimes being nice can be a real pain.
To be harsh and not knowing anything else about the family, that right there tells me part of the problem might be you.

Rephasing the wording to clarify the meaning bluntly: "Everything my sister and mother believe in sucks, but I'm too much of a nice guy to say it to their faces--just think it."

You don't disagree with the "some people", you're just nicer than they are and won't come out an say it.

You are respectful of your family's feelings, but not their beliefs. That doesn't sound very "nice".

Now, it could be that the religious side of the family is on the other end of the spectrum in that "you either believe in this and exactly this or you are damned." (I will say that is likely considering the apparent extreme of your position.) If that's the case, you are in a rather tough position with the family.

But if not, then again, part of the problem is your perception. (It sounds as though at least half of the family is not in the extreme religious position if you have a step-father who has a similar point of view. That would mean at least your mother does not fall into that category. Otherwise, he probably wouldn't be your step-father.)

Religious belief is belief because it can't be proven. There is no more concrete evidence for the non-existence of a "higher being"/"creator" than there is for its existence. There's only one testable way to know if there is an "afterlife"--and the testee doesn't get to come back and report the results. That doesn't mean there isn't, just that it's potentially a one-way door. (You can throw pebbles into a dark hole. Just because you can't see the bottom or the pebbles afterward does not mean the hole is bottomless.)

As an apathetic agnostic, I've had friends on both extremes of the religion debate. Both ends are equally annoying and counter-productive in their fervor.

Not long ago I had a militant atheist friend worried about going back and visiting her religious family...
Her: What if they ask me to do some church thing?
Me: Just tell them, "Thank you, but no thank you."
Her: But the fact that they're even going is so wrong and stupid.
Me: Because what you believe is right and they are wrong because you're so obviously right.
Her: Yes! Wait, no. That sounds bad...


Now, as to any questions you may have, there probably aren't any questions that man hasn't been asking for thousands of years. You won't find answers (because there aren't any), but you can find plenty of books that discuss the questions (and others you haven't thought of yet) from different sides. There's a whole section of philosophy devoted to religious questions.
Posted February 08, 2013
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deathknight1728: What sucks is that my stepfather and I are the only ones who see eye to eye with that stuff so its tough not having many people to talk about my worries/thoughts to. My best friend is like me and sees what I see, but I dont get to see him that much because I live one state away.
Another forum I frequent is http://www.theologyweb.com

It's a great place if you want to talk with other Christians about the doubts that you had and your reasons for leaving or with other atheists who are in the same boat as you.
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deathknight1728: I dont know, sometimes being nice can be a real pain.
Being nice always pays off because it's not about the response from others, but about changing you into being a better person. On the other hand, it is arguable whether continuing to deceive the rest of your family is really the nice thing to do. If it were someone from my family, I would want to know the truth and I would want to discuss it with them, but not everyone is like that.
Post edited February 08, 2013 by Soyeong
Posted February 08, 2013
..."Who would take wasteful delight in the spark from a flintstone? Besides, form and substance are like the dew on the grass, the fortunes of life like a dart of lightning-emptied in an instant, vanished in a flash." ...

>quote from certain cool dude, ponder upon if youre bored.
Posted February 08, 2013
See it more this way: they believe in god, you believe that god doesn't exist. I believe that nobody can know as I'm agnostic. In fact we're all believers in some way, as such our views suck equally.
Posted February 08, 2013
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deathknight1728: I know that believing in this isnt as bad as it used to be, but its still considered a shunned view.
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DProject: You mean, believing that there is no God? Oh boy. Y'know, USA's a great nation and all, but some of the views there seem really badly dated. Most civil countries and the residents within don't give two shits about what another person thinks of this divine stuff. And they keep their own believes to themselves as well, which is the way it should be. But looking someone funny because they DON'T believe in God? ....hahahahah. Well, of course there's the really loud group in every country, the ones whose life apparently depend on everyone "getting saved", but in America that cry seems to be the loudest. Well, maybe one day they too will have the courage to step into the 21st century and at least question the fairytale that started over 2000 years ago by who knows what kind of root-gnawing primitives.

Don't mean to bash on anyone's religion, I just find it silly if everyone's not entitled to their opinion. I have my views, everyone else has theirs. Screw you if you think I "believe wrong".
I probably wouldn't have put it as aggressively as that, but all in all I agree. Nobody here cares what others believe (unless it's something really funky). The whole idea of looking down on someone for not being religious is completely alien to me.

Personally, I'm an atheist (which is not a label I usually apply to myself, since I see no need to, but for the purposes of this discussion it seems that a label must be used), as is my whole family (to the best of my knowledge). I know several people who are very religious, and if that's what works for them, that's fine by me. Likewise, they have no problem with my lack of religion.

Culturally, I'm a Christian, meaning that I'm the product of a culture based on Christianity. As such, I know much of Christian mythology, ritual, etc. I've spent more than 4 years of my youth as a member of a boys' choir, with which I've sung concerts in countless churches all over the world, participated in loads of religious services, and sung loads of hymns and other religious works of music. As such, I can talk the talk and walk the walk, and I do when necessary. If I'm at a church wedding, a confirmation or a funeral, I sing along to the hymns (I probably know more of them than most of those of my countrymen who do think of themselves as Christian), I stand up when needed, sit down when needed, etc. It doesn't hurt me, and I respect the religion even if I don't personally believe in it.
Posted February 08, 2013
There is a difference between being nice and respect others opinion. What you do is just a matter of respecting their belief in something. Although i wonder if they respect your take on it that you aren't religious.
I'm also not religious myself. I find all that hocus pocus rather stupid and see that bible as a big book of fairytales.
But i let the ones who believe in it alone. If they respect my opinion i respect theirs. But if they try to convince me, then i bite back.
Posted February 08, 2013
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Trilarion: In many ways it's just about what makes you happy, the personal meaning of life ... and well there isn't any final answer in sight. One is as good as the other.
If one answer is as good as the other, then you aren't just saying there isn't a final answer in sight, but assuming that there is no final answer. In other words, if there is a final answer, then it would be better than the other answers.

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iippo: Many religions do have a lot of good principles and ideas in them, but I wonder why its so damn difficult for them to keep from attacking "non-believers"? If God(s) love all and has plan for everyone - then who stress about your friend or even family member from "leaving the faith"? I mean, if you really are in to the religion then id say its not YOUR business to start turning him one way or another - but just have faith on him and God(s) plan right?
I think that's the number one favorite verse for people to take out of context. God is talking about specific plans he has for a specific group of people, not everyone in general and not their entire lives. It wouldn't really make sense for God to give any commandments at all if people are just going to follow along with His plans.

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mertu: Religious belief is belief because it can't be proven. There is no more concrete evidence for the non-existence of a "higher being"/"creator" than there is for its existence. There's only one testable way to know if there is an "afterlife"--and the testee doesn't get to come back and report the results. That doesn't mean there isn't, just that it's potentially a one-way door. (You can throw pebbles into a dark hole. Just because you can't see the bottom or the pebbles afterward does not mean the hole is bottomless.)
Whether or not people think evidence is for God's existence concrete is entirely subjective. Every person, as a rational being, who thinks that God exists does so because they think that the evidence is concrete, or else they would think differently. I have personal reasons for why I think God exists, which others might not think is concrete, but I also think that the existence of a supreme deity can be logically proven.
Post edited February 08, 2013 by Soyeong
Posted February 08, 2013
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Titanium: So they expect you to go to church every Sunday and pray before a meal when eating together? Just humor them and go along with it, it pays off in the end since there is less friction, and give them vague answers when they press the issue of belief. Quote some random bible verse or something.

And if you're not living with them... then I don't really see what the problem is.
This is true and likely what I am going to do. It makes sense that everyone has their opinion and it can't hurt that I go to church every once in a while as its not a big deal. The only people I've got to steer completely clear of is religious talks with my grandparents. That would be deadly.

Im going to check out a few links that some of you guys gave in here. Thanks for that, as that was really cool.

Again another reason why these forums are awesome.
Post edited February 08, 2013 by deathknight1728
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General discussion (archive)Sometimes being nice doesnt pay off(186 posts)(186 posts)
(186 posts)