Basically you have the rpgs of today and the hardcore rpgs of yesteryear. Games back then required deep planning while games today can be beaten with grinding against simple critters.

So it really depends on the type of experience you want. Do you want something that lets you make your entire story/adventure/development? Or one that takes you through a story? You can go through Baldur's Gate, The Witcher, and Skyrim and have 3 completely different role playing experiences. They're all rpgs, but they're different types.

Don't beat yourself up over not getting into the 'hardcore' ones. They're very deep, but very punishing. Hard enemies, lots of text, many menus/assigning, many hours...you can't run in and take on everything. If you get deterred, look up that part on youtube. Then you'll know what you're up against.

But most of all it's meant to be a fun experience. While the classics are great and everyone will recommend them, that doesn't meant it might not be completely boring and horrible for you to experience it *today*. That doesn't mean you have bad taste, it just means that you either haven't developed a taste for them or you prefer other types of experiences. Find what's fun for you and if you really want to try to work your way to more classic/complicated systems. And don't be afraid to check a guide/walkthrough.

1. Div Div is a great game, it has a very open ended approach as to how you build your character, but if you have doubts about a character build in a RPG, just google something like "Diablo 2 Assassin best build" Or, Divine Divinity best character build.

2. I have no idea how to answer that. Pick up potions and don't bother with white named items , is the best advice I can think of.

3. If you die you reload your save, if you die either you have a bad build (see 1) or were not ver careful, or went into an area that had mobs that were higher than your level, come back when you are higher level.

I never played RPG's until a guy in Game begged me to buy BG1 the day it was released, I played it and never looked back, its now my favourite genre.

As regards Fallout, back then games were much more difficult, its just the way it was you just sucked it up cos there wasn't as much choice of games back then.

Div Div is a good choice to start with, it is well designed with a good story and witty dialogue. Make sure you do every quest in the starter area before you go down into....well that will be apparent when you play. also be aware that in Div Div you can move objects like bales of hay to search under them.

0. Considering how broad the definition of RPG is nowadays, nobody can deny the RPGesque features of Deus Ex. A few things are certain, this one is.

1. I suppose this question is really oriented towards Fallout. Fallout is unique, because you really can play it with any character possible. When you know your way around the wastes, you can even play with the weakest imp the radiations ever allowed to live.
Thing is, to live you have to survive. For instance, if you start at a "rat-lunch" level, flee get some stuff/xp and come back. Fallout isn't a corridor action game, use it to your advantage (peopl are getting thirsty and counting on you).

2. The common issue with these kind of games, the more interruptions you make, the more you forget and the harder it gets to keep track of things. If you don't have big chunks of play time it's definitely harder to play those games (it is for me at the very least).

3. Deaths is one the hardest game mechanics to manage. Not technichally but gameplay wise. Games like Torment build all around it which cancels the issue and improve the whole game experience. Roguelikes embrace it. Most RPG suffer from it : dying is the simplest way to say "you failed", but the whole reloading mechanic behind is really ....flow-breaking (didn't I already say to save a lot ?).
Bottom line : in Fallout, there are numerous ways to solve things so you can't get stuck.

If managing a lot of skills, attributes, spells, etc. and worrying about whether you're making the right choice will cost you later in the game, then perhaps Divine Divinity isn't the one to start with.

Don't get me wrong, I've lauded that game here, consider it to be the best what I call "hack and slash" RPG I've ever played, and definitely one of my top ten ALL time games. (What I mean by "hack and slash" might not be what the term means to others so I'll explain. It's a type of RPG where it's almost entirely mouse driven, and combat is "real time" and just basically consists of you clicking on or repeatedly clicking on an enemy to kill it. Think Diablo)

But the multitude of choices, while IMO is a good thing, and also IMO, is unbreakable in this game (meaning I think it would be hard to make choices resulting in you getting to a point of not being able to get past a certain point because of past choices), it is possible that the "wrong" choices in this game can make it decidedly harder to depending on your play style.

I guess what I'm saying is I would buy it while on sale tomorrow (today), but I would play another RPG or two first to ease you into more choices AND to make sure you're really settled on what exactly your play style is. For example, it you put points into a certain class of magic because some of the spells sound really, really cool, but then discover when you're playing that because of the way you react in situations you find yourself rarely using said magic discipline because of the tactical situation and your reaction to it, this could result in the end game time frames of RPG's being very difficult even if not impossible, and, like your experience with the beginning of Fallout, it would cause you to lose interest.

I really really can't think of a better RPG to start with than Betrayal at Krondor, if you're okay with some really dated graphics. It's most definitely an old school RPG with all the mechanics of RPG's, but with a lot of the choices removed from your direct input and instead happen "in the background" based on how you play. For example, skills increase based on a character's use of that skill. If you, while playing, have a character always take part in melee combat, then that character's melee combat will automatically be the one that rises the fasted.

Also, instead of forcing you to make combat/magic/rogue choices at the beginning of the game, the game also basically makes those choices for you too by providing you with different sets of characters to play at different points in the game so that you usually have the right set of skills available at the right time.

It is one of the best RPG's every made IMO, it is broken down in Chapters, it allows you to progress and explore at your own pace and choice, and it keeps you "in it" because of a great story and great characters that mostly act and react as you'd expect. It's also not nearly as overwhelming in length as some of today's titles, but not a "short" experience at all either.

IMO it's a great first RPG to play. I know this, because it was my first, and what moved me on to play all those other titles you mentioned as well as dozens of others you didn't. To this day the game remains one of my top 5 games of all time. BUT, the graphics are a little hard to look at and thus play, so I can understand entirely if some give up on it in the first half hour because of that. It's too bad, but I understand it.

I could also give you some pointers specific to your troubles in Fallout 1, as I experienced some of the same frustrations and quit several times before finally getting into it and discovering what a great game it is, but I've already gone way overboard on length.

Whatever you decide, good luck, have fun, and SAVE OFTEN.

Have you ever considered Dungeon Siege 1/2, the skills level up the more you use them, so that way you will be levelling up the skills you are most comfortable with.

There are a few general rules of RPGs that players just sort of accumulate.

First off, play it on easy the first time around. It doesn't matter which RPG it is, if you are new to RPGs start it on easy. You can frequently bump the difficulty later in the game (not always, but over half the time). This is especially true for anything that came out of the 90's.

Secondly, most RPGs boil down to Warrior, Rogue, Wizard for classes (with various accent flavours). Warrior will typically be the easiest to play. Wizards will be really weak at the beginning and incredibly strong at the end. Warriors will be super strong at the beginning and fair at the end. Rogues will be really complex to play and can either end up powerful, or just difficult. Exceptions do apply, but these are all just generalities in any case. Also, good is almost always easier to play than evil. This is because good typically gives way higher quest rewards, both monetary and precious experience-wise. Just something to keep in mind. This does not mean you have no options! The best part about RPGs (in my personal opinion) are the options! As in dialogue option, and choice of quests, and options regarding how you choose to solve the quests, and who lives and who dies, and what skills you use, and etc, etc. Even though games may start the same, they are definitely not the same game.

You do not -have- to play a certain way. You can play any way you want. I can guarantee you *someone* has done the most extreme version of whatever possible. I've seen solo run, no reload challenges on the DnD games, I've seen Geneforge done with no canisters, and Avernum runs done with only knives for melee weapons. Someone, somewhere has proven that it is possible.

Now, to directly address your first question, if the game is well made there will be another way around whatever obstacle. The classic, for instance, is a room with three doors. One door leads to challenging questions, one door leads to a trapped corridor, and one door leads to a room full of burly monsters. Can a mage take on the monsters? Sure! Give it a shot. Give it fifty if you like. But do bear in mind that there is -probably- another path to take if you get stuck.

Also, not everyone agrees on what is an RPG. Just throwing this out there. Addendum, you might want to start off with an RPG that is easier to get into than the really old school ones. Then again, you might also like the "learn by doing" method.

Death in RPGs... ah well, it depends. You have party based and single character based games. In party based games, individual characters can die, and the party can typically pay for a resurrection at the local temple. In single character games, you generally reload the last save. Which of course brings up the golden rule of RPGs, save early and save often. (And save in multiple save slots.) Will you be stuck until you make the "right" choice? Nope! Well, not often. It can happen, but one of the best/worst things about RPGs are the dice rolls. As they say, crit happens. Sometimes you are really, really lucky, and sometimes you are really unlucky. Plus there are thousands of ways to play out a fight so chances are you have some spell combo, or item in your inventory, or attack strategy that will win the day, and that will be oh so satisfying to figure out.

Now on to Inventory Management! Ah, well, you just kind of pick it up as you go. For inventory, most games use a "if it ain't nailed down, take it. And if it is, take the nails too." However, some games have a limited inventory, and then you kind of figure out what is useful really fast. If it has a unique name, keep it (mostly) or sell it. If it is worth a lot of gold in a shop, it is probably useful. The nice thing about RPGs is that they tend to start slow. So you won't have to worry about being buried in skills and spells right off the start. You'll probably have 100 gold, a suit of armor, a sword, maybe three skills, and maybe a spell or two. And then you just, well pick it up as you go. Truly. And yes, there is lots and lots and lots of trial and error. Try fire, try water, try holy light, try a club, try a greatsword, try a crossbow, try to backstab, try to summon a skeleton, what about poison, try to bribe, try to smooth talk, try to find some other companions to assist, etc.

Uhmm, sorry if that got really, really long.

Ps. My favorite RPGs are Avadon (especially if you are new to Spiderweb games), Avernum (5-6 are easier to get into, then go back to the start), Geneforge (again, 5 will be easier to understand than 1, whole series is good though), Knights of the Old Republic I (KOTOR, one of the absolute best if you like Star Wars), Neverwinter Nights (gets a lot of flak, but I love it, if you can get past the slow start. Plus Hordes of the Underdark is a brilliant expansion), Neverwinter Nights II (again, the main campaign catches flak, and again if you can get into it, it is amazingly fun), Bard's Tale (humorous, less options than others on character build, which makes it nice to start with) Brütal Legend (not quite an RPG, but hella fun if you like rock and metal music), Enclave (does this count as an RPG, it's pretty solidly an ARPG, which is probably not what you are after. Lots of fun though), Expeditions Conquistador (very nicely handled), and of course, the Witcher.

Your questions really depend on the RPG. The different way different RPGs deal with all these aspects is what sets them apart. Some make your beginning class choices what you'll have to stick with, some make your character evolve more freely in accordance with what he ends up doing most. Some have disappointingly useless stats to waste points in, some allow stats redistribution at some point later (same goes with tower defense games actually). And death is punished differently too, some RPGs (mostly diablo-like) do respawn you with or without a penalty (lost inventory or lost wealth or lost percentage of experience) and some send you to the end-of-game screen, letting you rload yur manual or automated save. Same for NPC companions - sometimes you lose them for good, sometimes they just get stunned and wake up after the fight without a scratch, some die and can be revived at a cost, in pristine or weakened shape...

So, no specific answer. The complete answer would be a whole typology, with named exemples.

Just looking at the sales page, maybe Nox would be a cool starting point :

http://www.gog.com/game/nox

Thank you all for your kind advice.

I have contempalted buying Betrayal at Krondor because gameplay-wise it did seem like right up my alley, especially the automatic augmentation of skills that you like using a lot. But graphics-wise the screenshots put me off, not because ti's dated but because I think the top-down view somehow suited a first RPG experience better, with more overview of what's going on and where to go.

So I decided to let the sales decide and followed F1ach's advice: bought Nox, installed it, played it.

I followed the advice to pick the Warrior-class as that's the best for beginners and got rolling. WARNING: Spoilers of Nox lie ahead.

The expereince has been quite enjoyable, but less, "adventure-esque" than I thought, and it seems one of my fears has come true.

So I started playing the game, exploring everything: every house, every crate, picked up every apple lying around until I couldn't carry it around anymore. This is an enjoyable experience at first, but gets quite repetitive after a while, having to go through these motions every time you reach a new town or dungeon. But I'm building up wealth by stealing gold and selling clothes and equipment I don't need.

The fights started out to be pretty easy, and while there are many foods and elixirs to restore your health, it even goes up a bit automatically. A feature I like and reminds me a bit of Deus Ex. This game is about surviving intense fights, after that you're in the clear.

Two main challenges:
1. Surviving those intense fights.
2. Managing your tools.

As a warrior, the skills you don't have to worry about. The Berserk-thing gets added automatically (and is incredibly powerdul I have to say, quite useful), so do the other "specials". They don't cost energy, they just take a while to load up again (which happens automatically).

So, why am i not ecstatic about it?

The survival of intense fights-challenge was rather easy at first. The spiders, bats, trolls and even zombies are no match and didn't even come close to killing me. A few Berserker attacks and down they all go (figuring out the Zombies took fire to take them out permanently was quite satisfying though). But now I enetered this Wizard-village and everything has turned against me. It appears I don't have the tools to combat a villag efull of wizards, where even the common civilians have more helath points than I do. And they're all out to get me. All I can do is run, hoping to isolate one, Berserk-attack the hell out of him, and hide somewhere to restore my health afterwards. But this is tedious and I've still got an entrie village to fight through. Maybe I'm missing something, but it makes me think I just bought the wrong stuff at the shop. And the wizards shopkeepers don't sell me any good stuff.

Not that I have any money left, since I spent it on repairing my tools. I see how it's realisitic, but I've lost almost all of my good weapons gone to dust because I used them too much. This "stick" the main warrior gave me is too slow and unwieldly to use, indestructible as it may be, it's no match against wizards. So I restarted and made sure my fireswords, kite shields, and healing armor remained intact. Pretty fair choices I'd think, yet now I find myself overwhelmed by wizardry.

I'll try to finish it, I like the style. But most of it seems rather repetitive to me, both the fighting and the collecting, and the story is pretty thin.

What I do agree with is that Nox is very accessible, up to the point where you have to face a class that fights you with different weapons than your own. (I guess the same happens in the Wizard-class).

Well I would say that a lot of games cross genre with RPG's particularly FPS's. In fact you've probably played a few games with RPG elements that were marketed as cutting edge FPS's. Some things to think about, do you want to play a linear story and focus more on the character leveling and development (ala Final Fantasy or Xenosaga) or do you want to play an open ended enviorment where completing the main quest of a game is almost optional? Do you want your decisions to permanently alter the game or do you want to pick quests at your leisure? Since GOG runs good sales you may want to sample a lot of different RPG games to find out what you like.

The thing with RPGs is that they're build around having characters starting very weak and becoming progressively stronger with level ups and upgraded kit until they're godlike
Therefore some of them suffer with low level starting characters being very weak and vulnerable and sometimes getting to the first couple of level ups can be the hardest part of the game!
I know that Icewind Dale, Fallout and Ananchronox suffer from this, I've not played Divine Divinity yet though
But generally, my advice if to stick with a game until your character(s) gets to level 3 before the difficulty starts to ease off and you get into the swing of it as this can be one of the hardest parts, as I say

Sorry to hear you are struggling Grimgroove.

I haven't played the game since release but I never had any problems, I evem gave it to a mate of mine who's only experience with RPGs was FF7 and he loved it, had no problems with it, I gave it to another friend who had only ever played one PC game ever (Diablo 1), he also had no problems with it, hence I thought it would be an easy starter RPG for you, so, I'm sorry that hasn't worked.

Are there any other areas you can explore to "grind" some levels and then re-approach this problem area?

Sorry I cant be of more help.

You could try the actual Nox forum see if you can get more specific help :

http://www.gog.com/forum/nox/page1#1396956419

Once again, apologies the experience hasn't been positive.

I absolutely love Nox, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone looking for a "full-fledged" RPG. Nox is very accessible, unlike most CRPGs, has no stats whatsoever for you to manage once you level up, no points to assign, no ridicule number of statistics, virtual dice rolls, percentages, THAC0s, Tacos, Taco Bells, Dungeon Masters, the good ol' Pen & Paper-my-basement-smells-of-underwear days or whatever. Nox is just mindless, uncompromising fun. It does have some loot and equipment you should keep track of, but that's it. The story is simple and sometimes silly, but you get to experience first-hand the tensions between classes and the people in the world of Nox, a mechanic that works really well and makes each of the three classes you can choose from an absolutely different experience.

I also think you shouldn't have picked the Warrior for your first playthrough, Warriors get boring after just a while, you just senselessly bash enemies until you kill them, and the berserker ability soon becomes ridiculously over-powered. The only challenge in the Warrior quest is the Wizard tower, as Wizards are the Warriors' natural enemies in Nox, and high-leveled Wizards pose quite a threat with their one-shot-kill spells, their invisibility and the extremely annoying Confusion and Drop spells. The game is at its best when you play with a Conjurer or a Wizard, you should have left Warrior for last; Wizards and Conjurers give you a richer experience, they are never under-powered but they aren't as over-powered as the Warrior on earlier stages, and their gameplay is more varied and offers more of a choose-your-own-style approach to the game. Also: running around as a Conjurer with two ogre ladies fighting for you?! Hell, yeah!


[EDIT] Misspelled 'THAC0'. Don't want to cause the ire of the D&D fans.

Yeah i don't think Nox is recommended to be your first, i do like rpg's but somehow i couldn't get into Nox either.
You either like it or you don't i guess, there are so many other, better ones. Think you should go (have gone) for Baldur's gate or Planescape Torment. But usually alot of rpg's will result to grinding, and that's a boring aspect of them.