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General discussion (archive)So... what are peoples thoughts on Ghosts???(176 posts)(176 posts)
(176 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 31, 2014
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Sachys: I won't call in future! ;)
You're real enough, and it would be fine anytime :-)
Posted March 31, 2014
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Dischord: I have no idea about ghosts, but I have encountered things I could not explain.

Nothing visual, just auditory, but enough to make me look for a cause that I couldn't determine.
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cmdr_flashheart: Story time?
thats a great song from nightwish :P
Posted March 31, 2014
One of my relatives is a little superstitious, so despite my beliefs, I keep an open mind. They also make Sagas really interesting.
Posted March 31, 2014
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Dischord:
*puts tinfoil hat of existentialism back on dischord

Okay, its not working. Dammit! ;)
Posted March 31, 2014
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cmdr_flashheart: Story time?
Nah, but it was a bit harrowing at the time.. I'd try to sleep through it after countless endeavors that proved to be fruitless, but my ex had other ideas ie: protector rise, and now :-)
Posted March 31, 2014
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AnimalMother117: One of my relatives is a little superstitious, so despite my beliefs, I keep an open mind. They also make Sagas really interesting.
...as I'm already breaking up the thread somewhat... lets enjoy some Stevie Wonder on SESAME ST!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ul7X5js1vE
Post edited March 31, 2014 by Sachys
Posted March 31, 2014
I have witnessed nothing definite myself, but there are many testimonials which are detailed enough not to dismiss.
Posted March 31, 2014
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QC: Here's a few things to consider.

If Ghosts exist, they offend the Christian Faith by having a situation where a soul is neither rewarded nor punished.

If Ghosts exist, they offend the Catholic Faith. While souls can exist in purgatory, a ghost is considered to be lost eternal from an outside perspective, instead of being cleansed and moved onward to the afterlife.

By these two, we don't equate a soul to be equal to that of a ghost. A ghost is considered a manifestation and gestation of a person's will and emotion, as opposed to an intangible spirit that makes a HUMAN alive, to be returned to either a creator or destroyer in ethereal worlds. These two religions don't give souls to animals, and animals have been thought to be represented as ghosts as easily as people.

There are religions, faiths that do allow ghosts, but I don't know nearly enough to be a decent source on either.
You're dismissing a few thousand years of "christian" ghosts mythology (with exorcisms, blessings, late burials, sin triggers, afterlife resolutions, all that jazz). And "our" ghosts (with the whole person's "soul") is a very christian conception of the body/mind duality (as opposed to exotic multi-"souls" version).

Actually, you'll have to admit that the whole european medieval folklore, with its ghosts, vampires, werewolves, even trolls, was pretty much christian, because these widespread belief were held by "faithful people" (and all these tales have references to god, the church, prayers, sanctity, etc), and if you dismiss their christianity, you'll have to accept in exchange that Europe has never been christianized...
Posted March 31, 2014
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cmdr_flashheart: Story time?
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Dischord: Nah, but it was a bit harrowing at the time.. I'd try to sleep through it after countless endeavors that proved to be fruitless, but my ex had other ideas ie: protector rise, and now :-)
Understandable, glad that's behind you, though!

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Aveweto:
\m/
Posted March 31, 2014
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QC: Here's a few things to consider.
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Sachys: This would assume you're both Christian and also that you heed to one of the many doctrines of American styled Christianty I presume?!
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Dischord: I have no idea about ghosts, but I have encountered things I could not explain.

Nothing visual, just auditory, but enough to make me look for a cause that I couldn't determine.
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Sachys: I won't call in future! ;)
No idea. I get beaten down by people saying I'm going to hell on a regular basis and it all sounds like so much hate spewing to me by this point. But Christianity, like the Catholic faith, original from Europe and have had little change in hundreds of years. The most recent pope could be considered one of the most radical religious leaders to have ever emerged. But it doesn't matter much anyway. Ghosts are a perversion of the fundamental ideals that these churches established. If you're atheist like me, then you don't believe in a soul, and it makes the argument for ghosts existing just as difficult because it means subscribing that something lives on after death. I assume the Islamic Faith is similar in how it treats the concept of one's soul/spirit.
Posted March 31, 2014
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QC: Here's a few things to consider.

If Ghosts exist, they offend the Christian Faith by having a situation where a soul is neither rewarded nor punished.

If Ghosts exist, they offend the Catholic Faith. While souls can exist in purgatory, a ghost is considered to be lost eternal from an outside perspective, instead of being cleansed and moved onward to the afterlife.

By these two, we don't equate a soul to be equal to that of a ghost. A ghost is considered a manifestation and gestation of a person's will and emotion, as opposed to an intangible spirit that makes a HUMAN alive, to be returned to either a creator or destroyer in ethereal worlds. These two religions don't give souls to animals, and animals have been thought to be represented as ghosts as easily as people.

There are religions, faiths that do allow ghosts, but I don't know nearly enough to be a decent source on either.
Maybe one stuck somewhere in between, no idea. Life force might equal life force, and void equal void, once again no idea or anything to support.

Strange things seem to happen to many, cause unknown.
Posted March 31, 2014
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AnimalMother117: One of my relatives is a little superstitious, so despite my beliefs, I keep an open mind. They also make Sagas really interesting.
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Sachys: ...as I'm already breaking up the thread somewhat... lets enjoy some Stevie Wonder on SESAME ST!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ul7X5js1vE
http://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2008/07/15#.UzoeR1fb-Z8

This what I remember when others mention Stevie Wonder, anyway.
Cool stuff.
Posted March 31, 2014
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QC: Here's a few things to consider.

If Ghosts exist, they offend the Christian Faith by having a situation where a soul is neither rewarded nor punished.

If Ghosts exist, they offend the Catholic Faith. While souls can exist in purgatory, a ghost is considered to be lost eternal from an outside perspective, instead of being cleansed and moved onward to the afterlife.

By these two, we don't equate a soul to be equal to that of a ghost. A ghost is considered a manifestation and gestation of a person's will and emotion, as opposed to an intangible spirit that makes a HUMAN alive, to be returned to either a creator or destroyer in ethereal worlds. These two religions don't give souls to animals, and animals have been thought to be represented as ghosts as easily as people.

There are religions, faiths that do allow ghosts, but I don't know nearly enough to be a decent source on either.
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Telika: You're dismissing a few thousand years of "christian" ghosts mythology (with exorcisms, blessings, late burials, sin triggers, afterlife resolutions, all that jazz). And "our" ghosts (with the whole person's "soul") is a very christian conception of the body/mind duality (as opposed to exotic multi-"souls" version).

Actually, you'll have to admit that the whole european medieval folklore, with its ghosts, vampires, werewolves, even trolls, was pretty much christian, because these widespread belief were held by "faithful people" (and all these tales have references to god, the church, prayers, sanctity, etc), and if you dismiss their christianity, you'll have to accept in exchange that Europe has never been christianized...
Exorcisms as I recall tend to be considered a the release of a demon or evil spirit from a person or location. I suppose you could argue a human who relished in chaos would welcome the chance to become a demon, but that would also in itself be a mockery as it means that the Devil has the stronger, and larger forces, and gives a wicked person power instead of punishment. Blessings I believe were the same thing without the angry spirit, a prayer or act to protect a person from such evil. I admit I don't know anything of Late Burials, Sin Triggers or Afterlife Resolutions.

For Ghosts, Vamps, Werewolves, ect, I'm curious to find out if those creatures had existed in written lore before the expansion of Christianity out of Rome. They're not in modern bibles, none of those beasts, except for as I recall the Giants, such as the story of David slaying Goliath. If those creatures are indeed then a part of the fundamental mythology, and religion itself, then we should instead argue that the US practices a perverse and misinformed denomination, as it started in Europe and moved on to North America.
Posted March 31, 2014
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Sachys: This would assume you're both Christian and also that you heed to one of the many doctrines of American styled Christianty I presume?!

I won't call in future! ;)
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QC: No idea. I get beaten down by people saying I'm going to hell on a regular basis and it all sounds like so much hate spewing to me by this point. But Christianity, like the Catholic faith, original from Europe and have had little change in hundreds of years. The most recent pope could be considered one of the most radical religious leaders to have ever emerged. But it doesn't matter much anyway. Ghosts are a perversion of the fundamental ideals that these churches established. If you're atheist like me, then you don't believe in a soul, and it makes the argument for ghosts existing just as difficult because it means subscribing that something lives on after death. I assume the Islamic Faith is similar in how it treats the concept of one's soul/spirit.
Okay, I've put the bold on your quote where it didnt make sense to me (and also in regards to the comment you originally made).
You might have some confusion on this. Not sure (its late here so I guess I'll see when I wake up), but I think you dont 100% understand the doctrines?
Like I said I'll come back to this in the morning (its no attack - just your view confuses me little with the points youve made!).
Posted March 31, 2014
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QC: No idea. I get beaten down by people saying I'm going to hell on a regular basis and it all sounds like so much hate spewing to me by this point. But Christianity, like the Catholic faith, original from Europe and have had little change in hundreds of years. The most recent pope could be considered one of the most radical religious leaders to have ever emerged. But it doesn't matter much anyway. Ghosts are a perversion of the fundamental ideals that these churches established. If you're atheist like me, then you don't believe in a soul, and it makes the argument for ghosts existing just as difficult because it means subscribing that something lives on after death. I assume the Islamic Faith is similar in how it treats the concept of one's soul/spirit.
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Sachys: Okay, I've put the bold on your quote where it didnt make sense to me (and also in regards to the comment you originally made).
You might have some confusion on this. Not sure (its late here so I guess I'll see when I wake up), but I think you dont 100% understand the doctrines?
Like I said I'll come back to this in the morning (its no attack - just your view confuses me little with the points youve made!).
From what I recall, the story of how Christianity originated (As opposed to the in-book guide) was with a Roman General, facing a foe that he was unsure he could defeat. In his dreams he saw a flaming cross appear to him in the stars, a voice telling him to spread the symbol across his armies shields, and they would see victory. He did so, and proceeded to survive, eventually becoming emperor and establishing Christianity. This I believe is the Catholic Half of the equation. Later in the world in Europe, King Henry the VIII would see himself married to a woman who did not bear him a child. The law of the religion said that he could not re-marry, and so established his own, eventually courting 4 additional women, killing most of them, and bearing no male heirs, which I think begets the current Christian half of the pair. I may be wrong, and it's very likely I've got something backwards, but this is the story I recall as for how each one began.

Edit: Now that I think about it, none of that accounts for Judaism. I have no idea if they have a direct relationship with either of the other two, but I think they were otherwise fairly separate. I also couldn't tell you when, where, or how it began, so this might be what I baffled you on.
Post edited March 31, 2014 by QC
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)So... what are peoples thoughts on Ghosts???(176 posts)(176 posts)
(176 posts)