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General discussion (archive)So, Bin Laden is Dead(405 posts)(405 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 02, 2011
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lukaszthegreat: The metaphor of yours was a bit lacking and it is conflicting with what you are trying to convey.

I never disagreed with you or targeted your views. Don't need to be so defensive about yourself.
I just wanted to point an extremely annoying flaw (to me of course) in your response to my question.
Lacking, yes, conflicting, where?

Well, it felt that way, from this perspective. Anyhow, You do now know what i was trying to say? [basically what a few people said below my first post to be honest]
Posted May 02, 2011
As a history major, I find it amusing so many people are arguing against his assassination.

Only in the 20th/21st century would you have people considering the assassination of someone so barbaric and hated throughout the world as being a deplorable act. It's not like this is the first hated person throughout history to be assassinated either.
Posted May 02, 2011
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AlexY: I wonder who the next Enemy Of The State (Therefore The World) will be.
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mishkamasya: Uh... yeah, it kind of bugs me. Can be just about anyone...

Well, we still have Hamas and Iran, so no need to worry about it yet. =)
Teh aliens! Haven't you noticed the disturbingly increased number of ufo sightings in the past year and a half? :))) j/k

Well for the moment, the retaliation threats and the supposed hidden a-bomb in europe are enough to increase the security, keep the world in fear, diminish civil liberties even further, be fiercer with the war on terror etc.
Posted May 02, 2011
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Yumi: Well for the moment, the retaliation threats and the supposed hidden a-bomb in europe are enough to increase the security, keep the world in fear, diminish civil liberties even further, be fiercer with the war on terror etc.
We can actually go further with that? [i mean, while still keeping the 'democratic [republic]' name?] Wow, the flexibility of the term must be amazing!;)
Posted May 02, 2011
Are we humans or animals? Well of course we are both.
I do think that the idea of humans as something separate from other animals is a valid one as we do certainly have many unique and very impressive features. I'm not a humanist anymore myself but I do think that humanism is a very important advancement for our species and also a defense against less human friendly ideas and ideologies like religious extremism, socialist extremism, fascism and (a more theoretical possibility) eco-extremism.

Despite this I do think it is important to often remind people that we are indeed animals. Many educated people that should know better are often ignorant of this fact and I think this is detrimental both to us and to nature.
Posted May 02, 2011
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Wraith: As a history major, I find it amusing so many people are arguing against his assassination.

Only in the 20th/21st century would you have people considering the assassination of someone so barbaric and hated throughout the world as being a deplorable act. It's not like this is the first hated person throughout history to be assassinated either.
Even though you perhaps would not want have a man or woman as ideological as that as a president, don't you think it is a good sign that we (society) have evolved in a good way?
Posted May 02, 2011
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Virama: This won't be a popular stance but I'm disgusted by the USA.

All this "tears of joy" bullshit makes me sick.

What about Vietnam? Iraq? USA has done its fair bit of fucked up shit. To wit, here is my facebook status:

****** finds it interesting how everyone is all proud and going "Woohoo" that Osama Bin Laden is dead. Yet no one is recognising the fact that he hid for over a decade from the world's leading superpower, fought for what he believed in and pretty much never stooped down to a media shit-flinging fight. At least he had integrity. RIP brave warrior of Allah.
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lukipela: Um, all he has done for the past 10 years is release videos. That is the definition of media shit flinging.

He wasnt brave. He hid for 10 years.

You might want to get an even vague idea of what you are talking about before you talk about it, ok?
TROLL
FLAMEBAIT ATTEMPT

You click every Rick Roll video don't you :D?
Posted May 02, 2011
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Wraith: As a history major, I find it amusing so many people are arguing against his assassination.

Only in the 20th/21st century would you have people considering the assassination of someone so barbaric and hated throughout the world as being a deplorable act. It's not like this is the first hated person throughout history to be assassinated either.
And ...? So what? I don't get what's amusing about this observation. Are you trying to imply that we can disregard and ridicule all ideas as new as stemming from the 20th century? That there's nothing to learn from history, no need for change? Besides, it''s more the celebration of such an act, its justification as a legit political means and the belief that it will change anything for the better that's causing controversy here.
Post edited May 02, 2011 by Leroux
Posted May 02, 2011
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Fenixp: So, do we get born with morality or do we obtain it? I'd say the latter. It's just a glorified value ladder, and every creature with sufficient social interactions has one.

Humanity vastly underrates animals.
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lukaszthegreat: If we were born with it then it would make us just animals.

it is obtained. Obtained by watching history, analyzing mistakes, predicting how future develops, analyzing other feelings and placing yourself in others shoes.

No animal, whether dolphin, dog, chimp or raven do that. their decisions come from basic laws of nature.
They might reach our current level as we did once. Nevertheless it does not make argument about us being "just animals" correct one as it excuses anything bad we had ever done as well as anything good we did.
I don't agree that there is a principal difference here. We are much more advanced than any other animal in our morals and culture but for us as with them it is a mix between genetic rules and how the environment influences the individual.
Posted May 02, 2011
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Wraith: As a history major, I find it amusing so many people are arguing against his assassination.

Only in the 20th/21st century would you have people considering the assassination of someone so barbaric and hated throughout the world as being a deplorable act. It's not like this is the first hated person throughout history to be assassinated either.
Oh, so you're a history major... I almost found it disturbing that you knew something about our history for a change
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Sargon: I don't agree that there is a principal difference here. We are much more advanced than any other animal in our morals and culture but for us as with them it is a mix between genetic rules and how the environment influences the individual.
I found it pointless to argue with people about that. They'll never get off their high horse.
Post edited May 02, 2011 by Fenixp
Posted May 02, 2011
You can kill people , but you can't kill creed .
Posted May 02, 2011
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Arteveld: The thing is, we are not animals, or at least, trying not to be ones. I'm suggesting that for a species taking pride in it's humanity, we fail at understanding it's basic concepts. How dare we say we value life, and then we're on a virge of throwing a parade when we kill a man?
Since the events of 11 September 2001, I haven't considered Osama bin Laden a Man.

His death, by whatever means, is a good thing in this world. One may lament the violent death of some random person, such as when an al Qaeda suicide bomber lights up his or her vest in an Iraqi public market or outside a mosque, but I'll be damned if I can work up a tear or any bit of regret for the well-deserved death of bin Laden and those in his organization.
Posted May 02, 2011
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Wraith: As a history major, I find it amusing so many people are arguing against his assassination.

Only in the 20th/21st century would you have people considering the assassination of someone so barbaric and hated throughout the world as being a deplorable act. It's not like this is the first hated person throughout history to be assassinated either.
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Leroux: And ...? So what? I don't get what's amusing about this observation. Are you trying to imply that we can disregard and ridicule all ideas as new as stemming from the 20th century? That there's nothing to learn from history, no need for change? Besides, it''s more the celebration of such an act, its justification as a legit political means and the belief that it will change anything for the better that's causing controversy here.
And, in some cases there's a legitimate cause for assassination. Had somebody managed to assassinate Hitler at the right time things would have wound up very different. Not saying that the end result would necessarily have been desirable, but it would have been different. Hitler was a genius in terms of how he ran the 3rd Reich, he unfortunately chose to use his genius for evil purposes, but he was still a genius, and taking him down would likely have caused things to implode.

What I'm wondering about is how Obama managed to make the call to W, I'm guessing it was taking pretty much all of his discipline not to be snarky about the fact that he's cleaning up a mess that W could easily have cleaned up had he been a competent leader, instead of invading everybody that looked at us cockeyed.
Posted May 02, 2011
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HereForTheBeer: Since the events of 11 September 2001, I haven't considered Osama bin Laden a Man.

His death, by whatever means, is a good thing in this world. One may lament the violent death of some random person, such as when an al Qaeda suicide bomber lights up his or her vest in an Iraqi public market or outside a mosque, but I'll be damned if I can work up a tear or any bit of regret for the well-deserved death of bin Laden and those in his organization.
You and everyone else. Implying that anyone here would shed a tear for Bin Laden is just silly. It's not about him but about us. Preaching human rights just to take them away from anyone you deem not man anymore, that won't do a lot for your credibility and is a very dangerous road to take.
Posted May 02, 2011
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Leroux: You and everyone else. Implying that anyone here would shed a tear for Bin Laden is just silly. It's not about him but about us. Preaching human rights just to take them away from anyone you deem not man anymore, that won't do a lot for your credibility and is a very dangerous road to take.
I disagree, this isn't a case of mistaken identity or where we're not positive what he had done.

Or are you seriously suggesting that the attempt to assassinate Hitler was morally dodgy because he's got human rights?
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)So, Bin Laden is Dead(405 posts)(405 posts)
(405 posts)