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gmx: city size is a memory problem - if they went with 64bit only we would have bigger cities. That is why stardock is going 64bit only with galciv 3

their idea was great, but someone didnt calculate how it would scale up
Nope, it's an optimisation problem. EA have tried to paint the city size as a conscious design decision, but at the end of the day it boiled down to covering for a poorly optimised engine.

As CW8 correctly said, SimCity 4 managed cities eight times as large with a quarter of the memory. It stands to reason that with modern tech, a city size at least twice what SC4 managed would be feasible under 32-bit with 2-3GB.

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Spinorial: Now to find the official EA press release and see just how they've managed to give this a positive, EA-for-the-players spin XD
About as official as it's going to get. Certainly has the "aren't we just the best" tone to it.
Post edited January 14, 2014 by jamyskis
Now they just need to drop the DRM client requirement and preferably offer the game DRM-Free here. At least offer SC3K and 4 here on GOG. I was really excited when I heard the game was coming out, but thankfully I didn't fork out the pre-order money. Online only is a insta-NO buy for me.
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gmx: city size is a memory problem - if they went with 64bit only we would have bigger cities. That is why stardock is going 64bit only with galciv 3

their idea was great, but someone didnt calculate how it would scale up
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jamyskis: Nope, it's an optimisation problem. EA have tried to paint the city size as a conscious design decision, but at the end of the day it boiled down to covering for a poorly optimised engine.

As CW8 correctly said, SimCity 4 managed cities eight times as large with a quarter of the memory. It stands to reason that with modern tech, a city size at least twice what SC4 managed would be feasible under 32-bit with 2-3GB.

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Spinorial: Now to find the official EA press release and see just how they've managed to give this a positive, EA-for-the-players spin XD
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jamyskis: About as official as it's going to get. Certainly has the "aren't we just the best" tone to it.
no, simcity 4 and 5 are totally diffrent, sc4 calculated polution, traffic, everything by equations, in sim city 5 everything - people, traffic are real ingame agents - you just cant compare these games and scalling them
There's no real difference between "agents" and "equations" - it's meaningless marketing talk.
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Sslaxx: There's no real difference between "agents" and "equations" - it's meaningless marketing talk.
You are obviously not a programmer. Trust me, there's a big difference.

Of course, the "agents" in SimCity 5 are not well implemented, to say the least, or at least they weren't at launch. I haven't kept up with the various patches for the game.
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jamyskis: Nope, it's an optimisation problem. EA have tried to paint the city size as a conscious design decision, but at the end of the day it boiled down to covering for a poorly optimised engine.

As CW8 correctly said, SimCity 4 managed cities eight times as large with a quarter of the memory. It stands to reason that with modern tech, a city size at least twice what SC4 managed would be feasible under 32-bit with 2-3GB.

About as official as it's going to get. Certainly has the "aren't we just the best" tone to it.
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gmx: no, simcity 4 and 5 are totally diffrent, sc4 calculated polution, traffic, everything by equations, in sim city 5 everything - people, traffic are real ingame agents - you just cant compare these games and scalling them
Either way, Sim City is far too broken to even want larger cities. All you'd end up with would be a huge city completely crippled by eternal gridlock thanks to their poor handling of traffic agents. They only recently made it kinda bearable in the small town sizes.
Trying to sell extra 500k copies? Too late.
OK, so they remove the useless always on.
Now there are only the problems with the small villages (i don't call them cities), the not working simulation part, the
(as far as i know) not working traffic.
No, i play my old SC 4.
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Sslaxx: There's no real difference between "agents" and "equations" - it's meaningless marketing talk.
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Wishbone: You are obviously not a programmer. Trust me, there's a big difference.

Of course, the "agents" in SimCity 5 are not well implemented, to say the least, or at least they weren't at launch. I haven't kept up with the various patches for the game.
Care to expound on the difference between "agents" and "equations"?
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Wishbone: You are obviously not a programmer. Trust me, there's a big difference.

Of course, the "agents" in SimCity 5 are not well implemented, to say the least, or at least they weren't at launch. I haven't kept up with the various patches for the game.
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Kristian: Care to expound on the difference between "agents" and "equations"?
Certainly. Understand though that I'm talking out of my ass here (as are most people on the internet, but I prefer to be upfront about it). Basically, I'm making educated guesses based on my experience as a software developer. I haven't seen the source code to any SimCity game, so exactly how each game has implemented each function is not something I know. I can tell you the difference between the two methods as I see them though.

Determining traffic by equations means calculating the traffic load on any given stretch of road based on a set of parameters, such as population density, time of day, workplace density, etc. All in all, this results in a single figure (or two, one for each direction) for any given stretch of road for any given time that the game updates the road traffic. This is quite fast to do, but also means that the traffic you see in-game is, for lack of a better word, "fake".

Using agents means that the traffic load is not calculated as such, but is an emergent property of the simulation. Instead of performing a calculation of the traffic load, and then representing that amount of traffic visually in-game, each person in the city is represented by a so-called agent, a small program-within-the-program, which keeps track of where each person is at any given time, where they're going and how they are going to get there. With each iteration of the game loop, the position of each agent is updated, and calculations are made to determine how the agent should progress. Each agent is represented visually in the game at all times (or at least when they are out and about, probably not when they are in a building), so the traffic you see in the game is not "the number of cars placed there by the game at this time because at this time there should be this many cars on the road", but rather the actual cars used by the agents to get where they are going while obeying the laws of traffic. This is a very calculation-intensive method of doing it, but it is also potentially much more accurate, because it does not depend on the developer's estimates of which factors affect traffic and by how much. Of course, from a technical point of view, there are many different ways to actually implement the agents, and from what I'm given to understand, the implementation of the agents in SimCity has (had?) any number of aggravating flaws, both performance-wise and logic-wise.
Thank you very much for your reply. You say you haven't seen the source code of any SimCity game but actually the very first SimCity game is AFAIK the only EA game that has had its source code released under a FLOSS license. So if you are interested you can check out the actual source code from way back then here.
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Kristian: Thank you very much for your reply. You say you haven't seen the source code of any SimCity game but actually the very first SimCity game is AFAIK the only EA game that has had its source code released under a FLOSS license. So if you are interested you can check out the actual source code from way back then here.
Just had a quick look at some of the code... Yikes! It's probably healthy for us programmers to look at ancient code every once in a while, just to better be able to appreciate how fortunate we are today to not have to deal with the limitations they had back then.

There's some ugly-ass incomprehensible code in there, let me tell you ;-)
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Kristian: Thank you very much for your reply. You say you haven't seen the source code of any SimCity game but actually the very first SimCity game is AFAIK the only EA game that has had its source code released under a FLOSS license. So if you are interested you can check out the actual source code from way back then here.
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Wishbone: Just had a quick look at some of the code... Yikes! It's probably healthy for us programmers to look at ancient code every once in a while, just to better be able to appreciate how fortunate we are today to not have to deal with the limitations they had back then.

There's some ugly-ass incomprehensible code in there, let me tell you ;-)
heh, I think every generation of programmers is telling this. When I was studying my profesor said "you kids are very fortunate, in my time we were using punch cards to write programs - try debuging them" ;] so now, when I look at stuff like unity3d...
I thought making an offline Mode is impossible. :-/

How the hell did they do that? By using higher technology? xD
Post edited January 15, 2014 by Silverhawk170485
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Silverhawk170485: How the hell did they do that? By using higher technology? xD
Blast processing specifically.