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General discussion (archive)Should I play Thief 1, or Scratches?(91 posts)(91 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 17, 2012
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Gazoinks: Continue this discussion! This is good fodder for my article on Emergent Storytelling! :D
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jefequeso: Well, there's a lot we could talk about. The divide we've created between "gameplay" and "story," for instance. Or the question of whether a story necessitates a passive listener rather than an active participant. Or how "deep" you have to dig before your actions in a game cease to be part of the "story" and become "gameplay." Sounds like we're writing about similar things, although perhaps different enough to merit separate articles. Yours sounds like it's specifically about how open-ended games serve as a canvas for emergent stories, whereas mine's perhaps a little more about how gameplay in general is part of "story." I think. It's still a rather abstract concept in my head that I'm trying to nail down :3
Yeah. I'm writing about Environmental Storytelling and other related things, as well as story that emerges from gameplay (such as in a sandbox game). Since I tend to not preplan before I write (I like to write stream-of-consciousness and then edit), it'll probably be more than that as well. The divide between gameplay and story (maybe I'll hold up Braid again) and active vs passive are both relevant and interesting, so I'll include them if it fits.
Posted October 17, 2012
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jefequeso: Well, there's a lot we could talk about. The divide we've created between "gameplay" and "story," for instance. Or the question of whether a story necessitates a passive listener rather than an active participant. Or how "deep" you have to dig before your actions in a game cease to be part of the "story" and become "gameplay." Sounds like we're writing about similar things, although perhaps different enough to merit separate articles. Yours sounds like it's specifically about how open-ended games serve as a canvas for emergent stories, whereas mine's perhaps a little more about how gameplay in general is part of "story." I think. It's still a rather abstract concept in my head that I'm trying to nail down :3
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Gazoinks: Yeah. I'm writing about Environmental Storytelling and other related things, as well as story that emerges from gameplay (such as in a sandbox game). Since I tend to not preplan before I write (I like to write stream-of-consciousness and then edit), it'll probably be more than that as well. The divide between gameplay and story (maybe I'll hold up Braid again) and active vs passive are both relevant and interesting, so I'll include them if it fits.
Hmm... maybe we should consider joining forces, instead of writing two nearly identical articles.
Posted October 17, 2012
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Gazoinks: Yeah. I'm writing about Environmental Storytelling and other related things, as well as story that emerges from gameplay (such as in a sandbox game). Since I tend to not preplan before I write (I like to write stream-of-consciousness and then edit), it'll probably be more than that as well. The divide between gameplay and story (maybe I'll hold up Braid again) and active vs passive are both relevant and interesting, so I'll include them if it fits.
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jefequeso: Hmm... maybe we should consider joining forces, instead of writing two nearly identical articles.
Not a bad idea. Although it might also be interesting to see how two articles with similar topics pan out differently due to different perspectives. At the very least though, it would be cool to "compare notes", so to speak.

Hm, does this mean I should replay Half-life 2?

(Incidentally, don't you hate when you start writing something and keep getting ideas for other things? I already have a bunch of stuff for my next storytelling article. >.>)
Post edited October 17, 2012 by Gazoinks
Posted October 17, 2012
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jefequeso: Hmm... maybe we should consider joining forces, instead of writing two nearly identical articles.
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Gazoinks: Not a bad idea. Although it might also be interesting to see how two articles with similar topics pan out differently due to different perspectives. At the very least though, it would be cool to "compare notes", so to speak. Hm, does this mean I should replay Half-life 2?
Comparing notes is maybe a better idea. I tend to work best on my own, as I assume is the case with you as well (artistic temperaments and all that).

Let's take this to PM, then?
Posted October 17, 2012
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Gazoinks: Not a bad idea. Although it might also be interesting to see how two articles with similar topics pan out differently due to different perspectives. At the very least though, it would be cool to "compare notes", so to speak. Hm, does this mean I should replay Half-life 2?
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jefequeso: Comparing notes is maybe a better idea. I tend to work best on my own, as I assume is the case with you as well (artistic temperaments and all that). Let's take this to PM, then?
Can do. I've actually never really done much joint writing besides scripting, which is kind of different and makes more sense for multiple inputs (in that it makes sense for the person playing a character to have influence on how the character acts... Within reason).
Posted October 17, 2012
I'm playing through the Thief series now. I actually didn't find the undead in Thief that scary. Intense, yes, especially with zombies (why oh why are hammer haunts easier to kill than zombies?!). But not especially survivor-horror scary.

If any level was scary, it would be Constantine's mansion in "The Sword". That level ended up unsettling me so much I was running across tile floors to try to end sooner.

I was worried an elf was going to sneak up on me and eat me or something. *ph34r*
Posted October 17, 2012
In before Licurg: play Sacrifice!

:-)
Posted October 17, 2012
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tarangwydion: In before Licurg: play Sacrifice! :-)
He must be ill today. 4 whole pages without him!
Posted October 17, 2012
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tarangwydion: In before Licurg: play Sacrifice! :-)
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jefequeso: He must be ill today. 4 whole pages without him!
No I saw him in one of my threads recently now he says BUY POSTAL 2!
Posted October 17, 2012
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jefequeso: He must be ill today. 4 whole pages without him!
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Elmofongo: No I saw him in one of my threads recently now he says BUY POSTAL 2!
Yup, he seems to be super excited about this one today. Like someone put too much sugar in his candy.
Posted October 17, 2012
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jefequeso: Let's take this to PM, then?
Actually, I've been enjoying reading this back-and-forth, so please, don't stop on our account.

If you're interested in environmental storytelling, I wonder if you've played ICO? It's one of the best examples I can think of; you can fly through the game and think that it barely has a plot at all ("rescue the girl from the monsters"), but if you pay attention to the environment and start asking questions ("Why did someone build THIS particular castle in THIS particular way? And how did it get like this?"), you can start to piece together an incredibly rich backstory. Which, when understood, actually turns one of the game's most triumphant moments into something deeply horrific.

Riven, the second Myst game, is another great example. One of my favourite bits is the toy you find in the pre-school that teaches you how to count in the native language. And then you start thinking about what it means that they would choose that particular toy to teach children about counting....

I think the writing term for this sort of thing is "iceberging" - writing a huge amount of backstory, but leaving most of it hidden beneath the surface, with only a few of its implications poking up into view.
Posted October 17, 2012
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tarangwydion: In before Licurg: play Sacrifice! :-)
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jefequeso: He must be ill today. 4 whole pages without him!
He moved from Sacrifice to Postal 2.
Posted October 17, 2012
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jefequeso: Let's take this to PM, then?
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Azilut: Actually, I've been enjoying reading this back-and-forth, so please, don't stop on our account. If you're interested in environmental storytelling, I wonder if you've played ICO? It's one of the best examples I can think of; you can fly through the game and think that it barely has a plot at all ("rescue the girl from the monsters"), but if you pay attention to the environment and start asking questions ("Why did someone build THIS particular castle in THIS particular way? And how did it get like this?"), you can start to piece together an incredibly rich backstory. Which, when understood, actually turns one of the game's most triumphant moments into something deeply horrific. Riven, the second Myst game, is another great example. One of my favourite bits is the toy you find in the pre-school that teaches you how to count in the native language. And then you start thinking about what it means that they would choose that particular toy to teach children about counting....
Ico is another game I really need to get my hands on, gotta pick up the HD collection when I can. Shadow of The Colossus was brilliant. And yeah, Riven is a great example of this sort of thing and, to be honest, it's a big part of what made the game tolerable.
I think the writing term for this sort of thing is "iceberging" - writing a huge amount of backstory, but leaving most of it hidden beneath the surface, with only a few of its implications poking up into view.
Or, alternatively, writing a bunch of random stuff and hoping people think there's a deeper undercurrent. ;P
Posted October 17, 2012
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Gazoinks: Or, alternatively, writing a bunch of random stuff and hoping people think there's a deeper undercurrent. ;P
Heh, yeah, but I find that I can usually tell the difference. :p (Do you HEAR me, Donnie Darko? I WAS NOT FOOLED!)
Posted October 17, 2012
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Azilut: One of my favourite bits is the toy you find in the pre-school that teaches you how to count in the native language. And then you start thinking about what it means that they would choose that particular toy to teach children about counting....
I still think Riven and Myst could be quite creepy in parts. I remember the SPOILERStorture room in Myst scaring the living daylights out of me as a young childEND SPOILERS.

It'd be great to continue talking about stories here too. Gazoinks and I are just bouncing incomplete theories and thoughts back and forth in PM. Just kinda developing the subject(s) that we're both going to write about. I think we'd both welcome hearing any thoughts other people have as well on the subject of videogame storytelling. No point in trying to keep the thread on topic at this point, anyway :3
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Gazoinks: Or, alternatively, writing a bunch of random stuff and hoping people think there's a deeper undercurrent. ;P
Songwriters are notorious for this -__-
Post edited October 17, 2012 by jefequeso
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General discussion (archive)Should I play Thief 1, or Scratches?(91 posts)(91 posts)
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