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General discussion (archive)Sexual Orientation and Video games.(158 posts)(158 posts)
(158 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 28, 2009
Read about that incident a few days; details still seem scarce, with only the girl's word on the reason why she was banned. Probably best to withhold judgment until things become a bit clearer.
As for the mentioning of sexual orientation in videogames or videogame-related social networks, I think a lot of heterosexual folks fail to realize just how often they themselves mention their sexual orientation. Just think about your activities on this forum- how many of you have made your gender known at some point and have also mentioned having a husband/wife/boyfriend/girlfriend, or have simply mentioned someone of the opposite gender that you find hot? In doing so you've made your sexual orientation known. And it's no big deal at all. Similarly, someone who is homosexual making their sexual orientation should be no big deal either.
Something that some may say is that on occasion those who are homosexual are far more explicit in stating their orientation, using it as part of their identity far more than heterosexual individuals tend to. If this bothers you then the best thing to do is, again, not make a big deal out of it. Foster an environment where making it known that one is homosexual is no more an issue than making it known that one is heterosexual, and as a result those who are homosexual won't feel they need to explicit state or be defensive about that part of their identity. In short, stop making it an issue and it will cease to be an issue.
Posted February 28, 2009
Very well said, DarrkPhoenix, I couldn't agree more.
Post edited February 28, 2009 by Zeewolf
Posted February 28, 2009
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DarrkPhoenix: Read about that incident a few days; details still seem scarce, with only the girl's word on the reason why she was banned. Probably best to withhold judgment until things become a bit clearer.
As for the mentioning of sexual orientation in videogames or videogame-related social networks, I think a lot of heterosexual folks fail to realize just how often they themselves mention their sexual orientation. Just think about your activities on this forum- how many of you have made your gender known at some point and have also mentioned having a husband/wife/boyfriend/girlfriend, or have simply mentioned someone of the opposite gender that you find hot? In doing so you've made your sexual orientation known. And it's no big deal at all. Similarly, someone who is homosexual making their sexual orientation should be no big deal either.
Something that some may say is that on occasion those who are homosexual are far more explicit in stating their orientation, using it as part of their identity far more than heterosexual individuals tend to. If this bothers you then the best thing to do is, again, not make a big deal out of it. Foster an environment where making it known that one is homosexual is no more an issue than making it known that one is heterosexual, and as a result those who are homosexual won't feel they need to explicit state or be defensive about that part of their identity. In short, stop making it an issue and it will cease to be an issue.
You're right on a lot of aspects, but I think some of it is misdirected. I'm talking about explicitly identifying as having a sexual orientation in your username. It's completely unnecessary, whether straight or gay. Small talk otherwise, if it's topical it's fine. If it's not topical, why bring it up? I'm a fan of non-sequitur humor, but bringing it up to say "hey, just to let you all know, I'm gay/straight/into animals" is completely unnecessary, you can play a video game without knowing someones sexual orientation.
"hey guys, before we totally pwn this match, I wanted to let you know I'm a lesbian, and I munch rugs daily."
Posted February 28, 2009
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ElPixelIlustre: I read an article about the same incident and looks like you can't mention your sexual orientation on your xbox live profile. That's why she was banned, not for being lesbian.
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Weclock: Exactly but it appears that the Gay and Lesbian alliance against defamation doesn't like it. I personally would prefer not to have to explain what sex is to my child until I feel my children are ready to understand, seeing a title that says "gay gamer" or something to that effect would potentially cause a misunderstanding and it's my right as a parent to say what I feel my child is ready for

If you want to control what your children are exposed to then bring them up in a locked cupboard. Sorry, but "how do I explain that to my child" is a crap reason to stifle free speech. Plus, if you're concerned about such things maybe your kid shouldn't have access to the net.
However, if Xbox Live *DID* ban people for having "I'm straight" or something to that effect in the profile, it's fine that they banned someone for identifying herself as a lesbian. I expect this isn't the case, but who knows.
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Weclock: but bringing it up to say "hey, just to let you all know, I'm gay/straight/into animals" is completely unnecessary, you can play a video game without knowing someones sexual orientation.
"hey guys, before we totally pwn this match, I wanted to let you know I'm a lesbian, and I munch rugs daily."

Would you have a problem with other completely arbitrary bits of information? What if someone had a profile that went on and on about their love of pizza. Completely unnecessary and irrelevant to playing games, but I'm guessing you'd have no issue with this.
Post edited February 28, 2009 by Nafe
Posted February 28, 2009
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Weclock: You're right on a lot of aspects, but I think some of it is misdirected. I'm talking about explicitly identifying as having a sexual orientation in your username. It's completely unnecessary, whether straight or gay. Small talk otherwise, if it's topical it's fine. If it's not topical, why bring it up? I'm a fan of non-sequitur humor, but bringing it up to say "hey, just to let you all know, I'm gay/straight/into animals" is completely unnecessary, you can play a video game without knowing someones sexual orientation.
"hey guys, before we totally pwn this match, I wanted to let you know I'm a lesbian, and I munch rugs daily."

You're right that it's completely unnecessary, so just treat it as such. If someone came into a game and their first words were "Hi, I'm straight" I suspect the response would be something along the lines of "Uh... ok." It's pretty much a completely unnecessary statement and thus would be regarded by most people as something that doesn't even need to be acknowledged. So when "heterosexual" becomes substituted by "gay/lesbian/bi" let the response be the same.
Posted February 28, 2009
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Nafe: If you want to control what your children are exposed to then bring them up in a locked cupboard. Sorry, but "how do I explain that to my child" is a crap reason to stifle free speech. Plus, if you're concerned about such things maybe your kid shouldn't have access to the net.
However, if Xbox Live *DID* ban people for having "I'm straight" or something to that effect in the profile, it's fine that they banned someone for identifying herself as a lesbian. I expect this isn't the case, but who knows.

As said earlier in the thread, Kotaku tried this, and was banned. I'm not trying to stifle free speech, I'm just trying to make sure things are topical. if I go to chuck e cheeses, I don't need that big rat tellin' my kids about sexual education. That's not why I go to chuck e cheese.
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Nafe: Would you have a problem with other completely arbitrary bits of information? What if someone had a profile that went on and on about their love of pizza. Completely unnecessary and irrelevant to playing games, but I'm guessing you'd have no issue with this.

Well, if the portion of the profile is "about me" that's fairly open to interpretation. if the scenario happened where the person stopped every one before beginning the match to say "hey guys, before we totally pwn these guys, I just wanted to let you know that I fuckin' love pizza, like I'd eat pizza every day for the rest of my life if given the choice."
this too is unacceptable, it has no bearing on the match or the game, and I did not specifically request this information. Keep it topical.
Making a topic in a forum, or talking on IRC is a different boat of items, because in both of those situations, it is a social environment where the topic can range.
Although some forums, (ala the specific game forums here) don't warrant this kind of discussion.
Like if there were a thread in the Duke Nukem forum saying "hey guys, I just wanted to let you know, vegetables totally turn me on." that is off topic.
Posted February 28, 2009
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Weclock: I personally would prefer not to have to explain what sex is to my child until I feel my children are ready to understand, seeing a title that says "gay gamer" or something to that effect would potentially cause a misunderstanding and it's my right as a parent to say what I feel my child is ready for

You have a _limited_ right to control what your children do, but you have absolutely no right to control what other people do, even if you think it might "protect" your children. If someone feels the need to declare he or she is homosexual for whatever reason, then it is his or her right. If you have a personal problem with homosexuality, it is YOUR problem. Deal with it. If you can't, if you feel you don't have the knowledge or strength to explain the world to your children, then just say to your kid to play elsewhere.
Personally, I'm an adult and "think of the children" is certainly not my mantra. I believe children should be raised to adapt to the world, not the other way around. I don't know what kind of information is normally in an X-Box profile, but, to me, sexual orientation is in the same category as age, skin color or favorite music band. If Microsoft is banning people because they are stating something about themselves, then Microsoft should be prosecuted.
Posted February 28, 2009
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Weclock: Well, if the portion of the profile is "about me" that's fairly open to interpretation. if the scenario happened where the person stopped every one before beginning the match to say "hey guys, before we totally pwn these guys, I just wanted to let you know that I fuckin' love pizza, like I'd eat pizza every day for the rest of my life if given the choice."
this too is unacceptable, it has no bearing on the match or the game, and I did not specifically request this information. Keep it topical.

OK, but this is a profile we're talking about. We already know you have a problem with someone identifying herself as a lesbian in her profile - what about if we replace that with "I love eating pizza, it's my favourite food". It's not relevant to gaming, but it is a fact about that person. The way I see it, it amounts to the same thing. I think it's just your own prejudices/opinions that make you think someone specifying an alternative sexuality is unacceptable. Sure, if there was explicit detail there it'd not be OK, but just "I'm a lesbian" is like me saying "I'm tall".
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wbaric: If Microsoft is banning people because they are stating something about themselves, then Microsoft should be prosecuted.

That I don't agree with. If they've stated that information is unacceptable in their terms and conditions, then they should be allowed to enforce it. No one is forced to join Xbox Live so they should be able to dictate the terms of joining as they wish - if these terms are unacceptable, don't join. I think banning this woman was a crap move, but I don't think it should be illegal.
Post edited February 28, 2009 by Nafe
Posted February 28, 2009
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Weclock: I personally feel that sexual orientation has no place in video games, unless you're playing a sexual video game, in which case, I don't want to hear about it.

I 100% agree, sexual preference like religious belief and even politics is something that don't have any place in a video game community.
If you really want to expose your private/sexual life to the world do what everybody else does... create a facebook page.
Posted February 28, 2009
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Nafe: That I don't agree with. If they've stated that information is unacceptable in their terms and conditions, then they should be allowed to enforce it. No one is forced to join Xbox Live so they should be able to dictate the terms of joining as they wish - if these terms are unacceptable, don't join. I think banning this woman was a crap move, but I don't think it should be illegal.

MS may have run afoul of anti-discrimination statutes with their policy. Think about the situation, but substitute "black" for "lesbian". Even though XBox Live is a privately owned and operated service, a policy saying that mentioning your race was grounds for being banned would be slapped down incredibly quickly by the courts, with some major penalties attached. However, currently I don't think sexual orientation is given the same status as race/sex/religion in US federal anti-discrimination laws, and its inclusion in state anti-discrimination laws varies state to state (and I have no idea what kind of anti-discrimination laws would apply in other parts of the world). Thus any potential legal action would depend heavily upon jurisdiction, although there is still the possibility of it.
Posted February 28, 2009
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DarrkPhoenix: MS may have run afoul of anti-discrimination statutes with their policy. Think about the situation, but substitute "black" for "lesbian".

I actually did think about that, and feel the same way. Though I feel it's just as repulsive to ban someone for stating their sexuality as it would be for banning someone for stating their ethnicity, I feel they should have the right to do it as a private business.
I'd like to think the bad publicity would be enough for them to think it's not worth the hassle. Though in practice, maybe that's not entirely realistic.
Posted February 28, 2009
my post, it's gone!
Posted February 28, 2009
Since so many of you are saying take the sexual orientation portion out of the discussion then how about this.
If MS has this policy in place and someone breaks the policy and is banned, but they get upset and think they are the one offended and they are going to do something about it.
First, they had to agree to the policy to get on in the first place and this person does not like the outcome and so makes it into, not a breach of policy, but takes it to a progay organization and attacks MS on sexual orientation grounds.
What does that say about an individual that broke the rules but did not like the result. And if rules are nothing more than obstacles to bludgeon into submission then where does it ultimately lead? I say, if she broke a bannable rule then she should be banned. If not why have any rules and let everyone do just as they please. Oh, that would be fun!
Posted February 28, 2009
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Faithful: Since so many of you are saying take the sexual orientation portion out of the discussion then how about this.
If MS has this policy in place and someone breaks the policy and is banned, but they get upset and think they are the one offended and they are going to do something about it.
First, they had to agree to the policy to get on in the first place and this person does not like the outcome and so makes it into, not a breach of policy, but takes it to a progay organization and attacks MS on sexual orientation grounds.
What does that say about an individual that broke the rules but did not like the result. And if rules are nothing more than obstacles to bludgeon into submission then where does it ultimately lead? I say, if she broke a bannable rule then she should be banned. If not why have any rules and let everyone do just as they please. Oh, that would be fun!

Do you read the entire EULA of every game you install? If you're a member of XBLive did you read the T's&C's in their entirety? I think it's highly likely she didn't.
Even if she did - to use DarrkPhoenix's example. What if buried in the T&C's was "no blacks" and a black guy joined and was subsequently banned. Would you have a problem with him complaining?
If this woman broke the rules, I feel they're well within their rights to ban her. As a member of a free country, she's well within her rights to kick up a fuss. As an intelligent wooly liberal, I'm well within my rights to think the people who make the rules at XBLive are morons.
Posted February 28, 2009
I have no idea why people feel the need to list their sexual orientation on an online service. I play games to get away from those kind of hot-button issues not have them thrown in my face. Another question to ask, is why is there an option to list one's sexual orientation in the first place? Why not just have it Age/Gender/Location/Favorite Game Type/Genre and that's it? That way those progay groups and anyone else with a stick up their bottom can bugger off.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)Sexual Orientation and Video games.(158 posts)(158 posts)
(158 posts)