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Aliasalpha: Well as it happens...
I'm just a bit bitter about games that have had such insane fan hype and been the best game evar!!!. I've been let down by all of the ones I tried to some degree, Halo (tedious generic shooter), Half Life 2 (tedious generic shooter with overused gimmick), FF7 (Straight up piece of shit with no story that I found in weeks of playing and crap gameplay otherwise), Fallout (okay game but hardly the king of RPGs)... the only game I can think of that's ever lived up to the fan hype (which I'd never heard at the time) was Planescape Torment

Yeah, but there *is* no real "fanboy hype" with Ico. It was basically released to a market that couldn't care less about it. It was not overly hyped by the developers or publishers -- in fact the only way I ever heard of it was a one off 15 second TV commercial I saw at 3 am, which probably contained around 5 seconds worth of gameplay.
Relatively speaking, a very small number of people ever bought Ico. But most of those who did, discovered something well worth talking about. But it has never been "insanely" hyped. People have discussed its meaning; tried to interpret it; compared the original Japanese version to the watered down US version and so forth, but it has never reached the popularity levels of any of those games you have mentioned -- and thus has never had the immature "lol dis game iz da bestest evar and if u dun think teh same u are stoopid" fanboyish retorts you'll find with any Valve game or Halo for example.
And to be honest, it doesn't need the hype. The game really has managed to do a lot with very little narative in 7 hours of playtime -- mind you considering the fact that the two main characters don't speak the same language (and in the US version, you never get to understand one side of the story*) it does very well at portraying the relationship between the two characters.
That said, the game does receive a lot of praise (praise is not hype mind you) which it fully earns. If you really know nothing of the game, then try searching Youtube for the intro movie and attract sequence movie. But don't watch any movies that show the actual game being played, that'll just ruin the experience if you ever do decide to play it.
(* The other half of the story is only translated during the second play though (and the US version doesn't allow for that)
Post edited September 29, 2009 by bansama
well I won't deny it sounds interesting the way you describe it but I tend to be wary of anything so highly described but that I've not seen. You're pretty well convinced me to get this compilation thing if they ever make it though so I won't spoil anything by watching vids
Seriously, Aliasalpha, Ico really is good. I got frustrated by it though, couldn't work out what to do at one point and since it was a rental, I gave it back to the video shop without ever finishing it.
Shadow of the Colossus, however, I NEARLY clocked before having to move back to Australia from NZ and thus never got around to completing, but my flatmate did, and loved it. The whole story is so well done... It's hard to explain. It's not about flash and bang, it's more... Grace and epicness. Ah shit, you'll just have to try them both out, if you consider yourself a hardcore gamer, these two titles are a must-play just to see something different.
I actually felt sad when I was killing each of the 15 bosses (and only things you kill) in Shadow. Such a well done game.
Well, I'm a PC gamer for a long time (not a negative kind of fanboy), but team ico is one main reason for me to buy a ps3.
There are some good games on both platforms, but i feel much more tempted about ico's the last guardian,
heavy rain, gow collection, gran turismo 5, FF13 on it's original platform, mgs4, PixelJunk,
LittleBigPlanet with some good old fun, Uncharted, Rage on blu-ray...hmm and if turns out to be good, some fragfest with MAG.
The thing is that i loved the news that they will remaster god of war,
i haven't played the gow games much, but seeing them at 720p is nice,
and i want them boxed, i don't want such classic or best-selling games ONLY via digital distribution.
Maybe, maybe if people react to the news, they'll jump on it and release some metal gear collection, etc...
Post edited September 30, 2009 by taczillabr
I always hear about Ico but don't really know what its about... anyone up for giving a short synopsis?
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michaelleung: Didn't like the fourth one THAT much. Hated it when people were all like ZOMG COD4 PWNSSSSSSSS and shit on the 360s and whatnot. They didn't even know there were three of them before it.
Still, Modern Warfare was pretty good, but I'm not going to say it's the greatest shooter of all time. Modern Warfare 2 Prestige preordered though. Can't wait.

I don't think it was the greatest shooter ever or anywhere close to it, but for someone who likes linear shooters with great presentation and immersion, I found it to be excellent. Same with the original game. CoD2 lacked something for me, not sure what it was... same with World at War, though that is a different developer anyway.
I like a lot of shooters other people don't because I enjoy being taken on a ride... linear and old-school is fine for me as long as the gameplay is good and the ride is exciting. I loved Timeshift, for instance, a game most people didn't like it seems.
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ilves: I always hear about Ico but don't really know what its about... anyone up for giving a short synopsis?

Dude with viking helmet finds girl trapped in castle. Dude attempts to get her out of there. Monsters try to keep dude from doing that.
As for the compilation, I'd pay $30 for each one.
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michaelleung: Didn't like the fourth one THAT much. Hated it when people were all like ZOMG COD4 PWNSSSSSSSS and shit on the 360s and whatnot. They didn't even know there were three of them before it.
Still, Modern Warfare was pretty good, but I'm not going to say it's the greatest shooter of all time. Modern Warfare 2 Prestige preordered though. Can't wait.
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StingingVelvet: I don't think it was the greatest shooter ever or anywhere close to it, but for someone who likes linear shooters with great presentation and immersion, I found it to be excellent. Same with the original game. CoD2 lacked something for me, not sure what it was... same with World at War, though that is a different developer anyway.
I like a lot of shooters other people don't because I enjoy being taken on a ride... linear and old-school is fine for me as long as the gameplay is good and the ride is exciting. I loved Timeshift, for instance, a game most people didn't like it seems.

Yeah, CoD 2 was also lacking for me. I felt like the first one put such powerful stress on the togetherness of the war, and it made you feel like every soldier had a part in finishing the war, as opposed to some super-soldier going through kicking ass and taking names. It felt different, original, and powerful. CoD 2 was "Yeah, remember Call of Duty? Good times, right? Here's more of it."
And I agree with the "ride" sentiment. I think you'd really like F.E.A.R. 2, because that (besides light-gun shooters) is the definition of thrill ride. I always have this nagging feeling that I'm missing something really cool in open-world games, so I like games that take you right to that cool thing so you don't miss it. Easter eggs are fine if you have to search for them a bit, but I want things pertaining to the atmosphere and storyline to be not too far off the beaten track.
Post edited September 29, 2009 by TheCheese33
God of War Collection will cost $40 (with both games).
So...
[url=]http://kotaku.com/5349447/god-of-war-collection-smooths-gameplay-adds-trophies[/url]
Post edited September 29, 2009 by taczillabr
I own ICO. The animation and character art is great and the soundtrack is pretty good, but the game itself is pretentious, the level design is average to poor, and there's basically no plot. It reminds me of the (old - PC) Prince of Persia games, but in 3d.
SoC was significantly worse. I never finished that one. It was basically "wander around aimlessly, then fight a huge screen-enveloping boss". "Blood Will Tell" did a similar, but more complex, scenario a whole lot better. Personally, I think the game is the videogame equivalent of Malevich's Black Square.
I'm not opposed to games as art, but I think SoC barely qualified as a game and Ico just wasn't a particularly good one. Overhyped massively by critics, hipsters and collectors. It's kind of the Valkyrie Profile (another decent, but massively overrated game) of games as art.
Post edited September 29, 2009 by cioran
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bansama: Yeah, but there *is* no real "fanboy hype" with Ico. It was basically released to a market that couldn't care less about it. It was not overly hyped by the developers or publishers -- in fact the only way I ever heard of it was a one off 15 second TV commercial I saw at 3 am, which probably contained around 5 seconds worth of gameplay.
Relatively speaking, a very small number of people ever bought Ico. But most of those who did, discovered something well worth talking about. But it has never been "insanely" hyped. People have discussed its meaning; tried to interpret it; compared the original Japanese version to the watered down US version and so forth, but it has never reached the popularity levels of any of those games you have mentioned -- and thus has never had the immature "lol dis game iz da bestest evar and if u dun think teh same u are stoopid" fanboyish retorts you'll find with any Valve game or Halo for example.
And to be honest, it doesn't need the hype. The game really has managed to do a lot with very little narative in 7 hours of playtime -- mind you considering the fact that the two main characters don't speak the same language (and in the US version, you never get to understand one side of the story*) it does very well at portraying the relationship between the two characters.
That said, the game does receive a lot of praise (praise is not hype mind you) which it fully earns. If you really know nothing of the game, then try searching Youtube for the intro movie and attract sequence movie. But don't watch any movies that show the actual game being played, that'll just ruin the experience if you ever do decide to play it.
(* The other half of the story is only translated during the second play though (and the US version doesn't allow for that)

Couldn't have said it better.
And btw, it reminds me a lot the situation of another game, which was a cult object and a source of inspiration for the team ICO: Another World (aka Out of this World).
Completely different universe, but same feeling to be in a dream, not so much 'fanboy hype' but still a cult classic and a unique experience.
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bansama: And btw, it reminds me a lot the situation of another game, which was a cult object and a source of inspiration for the team ICO: Another World (aka Out of this World).
Completely different universe, but same feeling to be in a dream, not so much 'fanboy hype' but still a cult classic and a unique experience.

Flashback, OoTW, the old PoP games. They all have a similar feel. It bordered on a subgenre in the early 90s. I have most of them. Good games, well excluding the egregiously hard Heart of Darkness. I don't think they translate well into 3d, though and generally aren't adequately done in 2d. They were too dependent on each screen as an independent puzzle. I think Braid and Oddworld were in the ballpark though in the 2d camp. I'm not a huge fan of the genre, but I even thought Braid was pretty good.
I think the only 3d game that's really adequately done grotesque 3d puzzle/platforming without turning it into an action game was American McGee's Alice. Psychonauts, while not very puzzle-y (and not in the ballpark) was probably the last great platform game I played (I honestly can't think of anything since then that aren't child-oriented or "mascot-games", and I'm trying). I think that's really the reason Ico's overrated - there are very few 3d platform games (barring the mascot games) that aren't action games anymore. Since Mario 64, even the mascot games have taken a shift towards action.
And yes, it is hyped. Critics literally fawned all over the game. It's become a hipster thing. I regularly have people (who know abolutely nothing about games) asking me to sell them my copy of the game, too. I wish they'd just release the game as a "Greatest Hits" so the mystique of the game would go away.
It's an interesting game if you're huge fan of the OotW/Flashback subgenre of puzzle platform games. It's not the second coming of Jesus Christ. It has nice graphics and sound. For me, it's a game like Breakdown - extreme historical interest for innovation (one of the major instances of unbroken gameplay in an FPA, early hand-to-hand oriented FP combat in the contemporary form, later popularized by Butcher Bay and more recently, Zeno Clash), but only fun if you're interested in that niche.
Post edited September 29, 2009 by cioran
You're entitled to your opinion bro, but I still have to say it:
CYNIC.
I'm no fanboy, and I don't hate you (or whatever) I just think that you've listened to the hype too much - I didn't know anything about SoC before I bought it, and loved it.
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cioran: I own ICO. The animation and character art is great and the soundtrack is pretty good, but the game itself is pretentious, the level design is average to poor, and there's basically no plot. It reminds me of the (old - PC) Prince of Persia games, but in 3d.
SoC was significantly worse. I never finished that one. It was basically "wander around aimlessly, then fight a huge screen-enveloping boss". "Blood Will Tell" did a similar, but more complex, scenario a whole lot better. Personally, I think the game is the videogame equivalent of Malevich's Black Square.
I'm not opposed to games as art, but I think SoC barely qualified as a game and Ico just wasn't a particularly good one. Overhyped massively by critics, hipsters and collectors. It's kind of the Valkyrie Profile (another decent, but massively overrated game) of games as art.

Really? You didn't like either? I loved both of them, and many others do, too.
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cioran: I own ICO. The animation and character art is great and the soundtrack is pretty good, but the game itself is pretentious, the level design is average to poor, and there's basically no plot. It reminds me of the (old - PC) Prince of Persia games, but in 3d.
SoC was significantly worse. I never finished that one. It was basically "wander around aimlessly, then fight a huge screen-enveloping boss". "Blood Will Tell" did a similar, but more complex, scenario a whole lot better. Personally, I think the game is the videogame equivalent of Malevich's Black Square.
I'm not opposed to games as art, but I think SoC barely qualified as a game and Ico just wasn't a particularly good one. Overhyped massively by critics, hipsters and collectors. It's kind of the Valkyrie Profile (another decent, but massively overrated game) of games as art.

Each one his taste, but I think you've missed something in those games.
I mean, ICO and SotC have not been made to be revolutionary video games, they've been made to make you live and feel unique experiences.
And don't try to look for a strong story, it may even ruin the experience. Those games are not constructed on stories, but more on feelings.
You just have to let the game take you where it wants.
If you really want an overhyped game with shiny-glossy graphics and 'wow-so-cool-moves', but lame concept, gameplay, characters, go watch the lastest Assassin's Creed II trailer...
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cioran: I own ICO. The animation and character art is great and the soundtrack is pretty good, but the game itself is pretentious, the level design is average to poor, and there's basically no plot. It reminds me of the (old - PC) Prince of Persia games, but in 3d.
SoC was significantly worse. I never finished that one. It was basically "wander around aimlessly, then fight a huge screen-enveloping boss". "Blood Will Tell" did a similar, but more complex, scenario a whole lot better. Personally, I think the game is the videogame equivalent of Malevich's Black Square.
I'm not opposed to games as art, but I think SoC barely qualified as a game and Ico just wasn't a particularly good one. Overhyped massively by critics, hipsters and collectors. It's kind of the Valkyrie Profile (another decent, but massively overrated game) of games as art.
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TheCheese33: Really? You didn't like either? I loved both of them, and many others do, too.

Appeal to the masses. Weak argument. A lot of people loved Jaws: the game, too. It hardly makes it any good. There is skill involved in all this. You'd criticize Halo for its popularity, yet you cite the same argument to bolster this game.
Hardly says very much about taste. Taste by its nature is refined, aristocratic in its sensibilities (though not its origin, necessarily) and authoritative in its leanings. Read Critique of Judgment. I still don't think you really understand why I dislike the game.
DarthKaal's point regarding the impressionistic nature of the game was somewhat better - at least that's a point regarding the game. I don't buy it, I'd argue in favor of the desirability of interaction versus experience in a game, but it shows a strong grasp of the Ico. Still, I'd say the best portrayal of the grotesque puzzle/platform is still Alice.
Also, this viewpoint is internally inconsistent. The primary appeal of Ico is impression, but the primary means of conveyance is discounted.
Post edited September 30, 2009 by cioran