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General discussion (archive)RPG Video Game Sequels - How to start again(20 posts)(20 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 13, 2013
In most RPGs you start as a nobody and become the ultimate hero (or villain if the game implements some awkward moral system)
Then, in the sequel you start as the same hero again, only that you are a nobody again, your fame and fortune gone and your level reset to 0, like suffering from some sort of amnesia.
Doesn't that bother you? I mean you probably cared for the hero. But then he (or she) neglected himself so much that he became some poor, drunkard, new-bie like beginner level character again.
Risen is a good example of this, alas even the Witcher suffers from these problems.

Actually the only good example I know of is Baldurs Gate, which did a good job avoiding that.
Which other games have a decent sequel method of "reviving" your hero without the feel of a completely new character?
Post edited August 13, 2013 by Khadgar42
Posted August 13, 2013
Mask of the Betrayer (for NWN2), you start as at level 18, you have close to godly powers and companions right from the beginning
Posted August 13, 2013
KOTOR 2 and Jedi Academy meet you halfway which I really liked (yes I know that JA isn't an RPG). They start the sequels as new characters that have lesser powers then your previous one but not as less. Instead of spending half the game to become a Jedi and start building up your powers, you start the game as Jedi (or fallen Jedi or Padawans) and get to work on your cool Force power stuff right away.
Post edited August 13, 2013 by tinyE
Posted August 13, 2013
NWN expansions started from a higher level. I just started Eye of the Beholder 2, and that starts with the characters being called to help again because of their previous service. You can load a party from a previous game.
Post edited August 13, 2013 by ET3D
Posted August 13, 2013
And sometimes you play a completely different bod from years later like the Fable series...
Posted August 13, 2013
Yea, I do find it a bit silly sometimes. Why does the avatar keep forgetting how to fight well? And why does he keep forgetting the mantras?

I usually think it works better when they give you a brand new character with each new game, unless they are either able to present more "high level" threats in part 2 (along the line of Baldur's Gate 2, or the second NWN expansion (did I just say something good about NWN?)), without the game just becoming silly.

I think part of the problem lies with the fact that too many CRPGs tries to present you with the ultimate world ending evil (or something along that line) right form the get-go. If they intend to build a franchise with a clearly recognizable main character, or at least one that you play through several games, they should consider scaling down the threat level in the early games. It does not have to be the mad warlock who has summonsed the forces of hell, and who is protected by the devil himself in the first game, it might just be an exceptionally cunning orc warlord threatening the town that you are from.



I actually thought the Mass Effect series did a rather good job (the fact that the CRPG-elements were rather light, and thus most of the combat encounters came down to how good you as a player were at aiming and taking cover). Ultima 5 allowed you to import your Ultima 4 character.
Posted August 13, 2013
The 'Realms of Arkania' series avoided this too. You could import characters from the previous game and each game was set for a higher starting character level than the previous. Just like Baldurs Gate did later.
Posted August 13, 2013
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AFnord: I actually thought the Mass Effect series did a rather good job (the fact that the CRPG-elements were rather light, and thus most of the combat encounters came down to how good you as a player were at aiming and taking cover).
Just to nitpick, I think the Mass Effect sequels were good about aiming and taking cover. The first game in the series was an RPG with shooter elements - I played as a support character one run through (Sentinel/Medic) and didn't have to shoot a single thing except bosses after the game intro. Throw down a singularity, heal my companions, lift anyone pesky enough to dodge the miniature black hole in the room...no shooter skills required, played like that.
Posted August 13, 2013
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AFnord: Yea, I do find it a bit silly sometimes. Why does the avatar keep forgetting how to fight well? And why does he keep forgetting the mantras?
The Avatar has his explanation. Remember that the world of Britannia and the Wolrd the Avatar comes from, which is our world, have different time lines, so each time the Avatar returns to Britannia, even when maybe just a few years passed in our world, in Britannia could have passed around 100 years. Also, when the Avatar returns, just as he doesn't bring his equiment with him (which is lots somewhere), he has to again learn his skills (since his knowledge and powers are different from one world and another).

Regarding the Mantras, he doesn't forget, but the plot is made for people who hasn't play the previous games to be able to know them. If you already know the, you don't have to re-learn them.

Eye of the Beholder and some Forgotten Realms characters could be imported to later games.
Posted August 13, 2013
This never bothered me really, but I do like when they explain it a little. In Risen 2 you were said to have fallen into alcoholism and laziness after Risen, and need to rebuild your skills.
Posted August 14, 2013
At least Geralt remembered his signs for the sequel... So it wasn't a total loss...
Posted August 14, 2013
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AFnord: Yea, I do find it a bit silly sometimes. Why does the avatar keep forgetting how to fight well? And why does he keep forgetting the mantras?
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Mentao: The Avatar has his explanation. Remember that the world of Britannia and the Wolrd the Avatar comes from, which is our world, have different time lines, so each time the Avatar returns to Britannia, even when maybe just a few years passed in our world, in Britannia could have passed around 100 years. Also, when the Avatar returns, just as he doesn't bring his equiment with him (which is lots somewhere), he has to again learn his skills (since his knowledge and powers are different from one world and another).

Regarding the Mantras, he doesn't forget, but the plot is made for people who hasn't play the previous games to be able to know them. If you already know the, you don't have to re-learn them.
I do find it a bit strange that the transition makes him forget how to swing a sword every time though. I could understand magic, because that is something that only Britannia has.
Also, he does not return to earth during Ultima 7 part 1, Ultima Underworld 2, Ultima 7 part 2 & Ultima 8, and in Ultima 9 he has forgot all the mantras.
Posted August 14, 2013
It depends on the game, usually if the story is interesting and mechanics in place I'm not bothered that much with starting fresh.

I even find the low level games and parts of the game the most challenging (careful planning and building) before you become the "destroyer of worlds".
Posted August 14, 2013
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Khadgar42: Which other games have a decent sequel method of "reviving" your hero without the feel of a completely new character?
The SSI Gold Box Krynn games (Champions of Krynn, Death Knights of Krynn, Dark Queen of Krynn) let you import your entire party from the previous game, and simply start the next game exactly where they left off. If you didn't import an existing party, you'd get to roll characters at a level equivalent to what you'd be expected to end the previous game with. Of course, the net effect was more or less the same as starting over, as all the enemies in the next game were scaled up to your starting level (naturally, or there would be exactly zero challenge), but it meant that you had continuity from your previous game, and of course you also kept all the equipment you'd gathered. Also, you didn't have to build a new party and figure out how to use the different characters to your best advantage. Thus the later games felt more like extensions of the original game that as stand-alone sequels.
Posted August 14, 2013
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Khadgar42:
Rogue Legacy sounds like it has an interesting mechanic for dealing with this problem. Ya pick one of your kids to play as after you die but they all have specific bonuses and handicaps etc.
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General discussion (archive)RPG Video Game Sequels - How to start again(20 posts)(20 posts)
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