It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
mushy101: Fixed because you are damn guilty of what I just wrote. Orc or anyone here isn't supporting piracy. Again and again, we point out taking a gatling gun to the issue of piracy always harms, well everyone involved.
Probably, except the publisher :)

No, I get that some people here want to make that point. I just don't think celebrating piracy is the right way to go about it.

I think there's a certain amount of "sticking it to the man" that goes on, like some developer already "gets enough" so "screw them."
Post edited February 03, 2012 by stoicsentry
avatar
stoicsentry: I really don't get it either. It's one thing to say it's a nuanced issue and there are reasons it happens. Quite another to glorify it. I don't see what's so noble about not supporting artists whose work you enjoy.
People who practice "safe Piracy" claim that they end up buying most of the games anyway..."most."
avatar
KyleKatarn: Hmmm, sounds an awful like TV and radio increasing brand awareness, which allows some people to become much more massively popular than they ever could have before. Filesharing is not going to go away. I only hope it doesn't go the way of (most) radio and TV stations that keep hammering the same relatively small percentage of content into people's heads over and over and over...
avatar
orcishgamer: Well, it is already that way to some extent, popular stuff is much more available and easier to find. However, I recall the first time I ever fired up Limewire I goggled at the stuff that just simply was not available for sale to me at the time (anime fansubs were pretty much the only way to acquire any but a handful of anime titles at the time). I think to an extent the internet will always act as a way to connect people with extremely niche tastes and allow facilitation for creation and distribution of such content. The only way that won't happen is if the internet ceases to exist in its present form, which a lot of people in various governments and industries dearly want. In the end, the genie may be permanently out of the bottle. The next generations will not see art and copyright the way even we do, simply due to the nature of the internet. 3D printing will likely fuck over the rest of the old guard. I call it human progress. Others malign it. Oh well.
I don't mind progress as long as it isn't forced.

As for 3D printing, I'm excited about it. I don't know much about how it works yet but sometimes my mind runs wild. I already think of yard lawns as small solar panels and think of how much wasted energy is used to keep them tidy. What if I could print something from grass clippings or tree leaves? That would be cool.

3D printing seems like it would be more fitting to the copyright debate to me anyway since, as I understand it, the "useful arts" in the copyright clause refers to artisans.
Post edited February 03, 2012 by KyleKatarn
avatar
mushy101: Leaving pirates in peace is what we want more of. That's it.
Fixed your post, too. Spinning someone else's arguments to reinforce your own position is fun, isn't it?
To be honest, way too often do certain people here jump to pirates' defence, attempt to belittle the problem, verbally attack the companies (latest example:CDProjekt) trying to fight piracy even.
avatar
mushy101: Leaving pirates in peace is what we want more of. That's it.
avatar
Phaidox: Fixed your post, too. Spinning someone else's arguments to reinforce your own position is fun, isn't it?
To be honest, way too often do certain people here jump to pirates' defence, attempt to belittle the problem, verbally attack the companies (latest example:CDProjekt) trying to fight piracy even.
And we do that as we don't see two wrongs making a right, especially when the second wrong seems to be way out of proportion to the harm done by the first wrong. You don't expect your doctor to try amputation as the first treatment for every medical ill, why do so many think the legal version of "going nuclear" is appropriate in this context?
Post edited February 03, 2012 by orcishgamer
avatar
SimonG: TL:DR: my opinion take it or leave it
If game is available in your country and you pirate it, then you are thief.

It's my opinion, take it or leave it.
Post edited February 03, 2012 by Aver
avatar
SimonG: TL:DR: my opinion take it or leave it
avatar
Aver: If game is available in your country and you pirate it, then you are thief.

It's my opinion, take it or leave it.
If an individual or company takes freely from culture and fails to give back then they are thieves on a much more malignant scale.

Aside from that, define "available", it doesn't seem like some companies are terribly willing to sell you anything at all, though they're happy to charge you money for it as if they were.
Post edited February 03, 2012 by orcishgamer
avatar
orcishgamer: If an individual or company takes freely from culture and fails to give back then they are thieves on a much more malignant scale.
It depends on what you exactly mean by this (I don't see too many examples in gaming industry), but I never said they are not.
Post edited February 03, 2012 by Aver
avatar
orcishgamer: Well, it is already that way to some extent, popular stuff is much more available and easier to find. However, I recall the first time I ever fired up Limewire I goggled at the stuff that just simply was not available for sale to me at the time (anime fansubs were pretty much the only way to acquire any but a handful of anime titles at the time). I think to an extent the internet will always act as a way to connect people with extremely niche tastes and allow facilitation for creation and distribution of such content. The only way that won't happen is if the internet ceases to exist in its present form, which a lot of people in various governments and industries dearly want. In the end, the genie may be permanently out of the bottle. The next generations will not see art and copyright the way even we do, simply due to the nature of the internet. 3D printing will likely fuck over the rest of the old guard. I call it human progress. Others malign it. Oh well.
avatar
KyleKatarn: I don't mind progress as long as it isn't forced.

As for 3D printing, I'm excited about it. I don't know much about how it works yet but sometimes my mind runs wild. I already think of yard lawns as small solar panels and think of how much wasted energy is used to keep them tidy. What if I could print something from grass clippings or tree leaves? That would be cool.

3D printing seems like it would be more fitting to the copyright debate to me anyway since, as I understand it, the "useful arts" in the copyright clause refers to artisans.
You might enjoy this: http://www.3ders.org/articles/20120203-83-year-old-woman-got-3d-printed-mandible.html

There's supposedly some dude in Afghanistan that has a solar powered one that converts sand into a glass-type substance and prints it. The range of outputs is getting pretty broad, in my city you can print for 7 USD per cubic inch of source material. You bring your own design file.
avatar
KyleKatarn: I don't mind progress as long as it isn't forced.

As for 3D printing, I'm excited about it. I don't know much about how it works yet but sometimes my mind runs wild. I already think of yard lawns as small solar panels and think of how much wasted energy is used to keep them tidy. What if I could print something from grass clippings or tree leaves? That would be cool.

3D printing seems like it would be more fitting to the copyright debate to me anyway since, as I understand it, the "useful arts" in the copyright clause refers to artisans.
avatar
orcishgamer: You might enjoy this: http://www.3ders.org/articles/20120203-83-year-old-woman-got-3d-printed-mandible.html

There's supposedly some dude in Afghanistan that has a solar powered one that converts sand into a glass-type substance and prints it. The range of outputs is getting pretty broad, in my city you can print for 7 USD per cubic inch of source material. You bring your own design file.
Hey thanks! I'll probably spend my weekend looking over that site while drinking heavily. Supposed to be a dose of winter reality here. I kind of like stocking the fridge for these weather events :)
avatar
orcishgamer: And we do that as we don't see two wrongs making a right, especially when the second wrong seems to be way out of proportion to the harm done by the first wrong. You don't expect your doctor to try amputation as the first treatment for every medical ill, why do so many think the legal version of "going nuclear" is appropriate in this context?
Kindly invest a lot of money into the development of a game. Once you go bankrupt due to the fact millions of thieves convinced they're entitled to everything for free reward you by preventing your project from breaking even, you'll change your attitude pretty quickly. That's not a given of course, but you're not guaranteed to succeed either, regardless of your product's quality.
For now, your arguments do not hold any merit - it's very easy for you to accuse others of being overprotective of the fruits of their labour since it's not your money that's at stake.
Wait wut? What publisher has ever gone bankrupt because of piracy instead of because of corporate mismanagement, embezzlement, or overspecializing in a vanishing market? Most of the companies that are the most vocal about piracy also happen to be the ones that are the most successful.
avatar
mushy101: Leaving pirates in peace is what we want more of. That's it.
avatar
Phaidox: Fixed your post, too. Spinning someone else's arguments to reinforce your own position is fun, isn't it?
To be honest, way too often do certain people here jump to pirates' defence, attempt to belittle the problem, verbally attack the companies (latest example:CDProjekt) trying to fight piracy even.
The select stupid posters verbally attacked CDP, most of us pointed out the dire (and proven) consequences of pursuing IP tracking. aaaaaaaaand guess what? We were right, because CDP changed the decision, before anyone innocent got hurt.

Being frank, we deserve the whole DRM issue going on, we've just sat on our collective asses and did nothing as a whole whilst DRM as a enitity not a service, rolled onto us. Yeah it's changed with pc gamers showing that DRM free is viable, with indie games FLOURISHING on our platform, GoG expanding nicely and GamersGate growing stronger. Not to mention Humble bundle making over 10 million so far, overall.

These models work, the reality is our platform requires thought, sense, understanding and most importantly, community interaction to get the most out of. At the risk of insulting console gamers, we really do have a base level of higher intelligence and due diligence. I mean you have to to build a computer and maintain it properly. The industry is showing that it does not want to invest in that type of thinking, hence the ancient responses in regarding piracy. Other industries have learnt and suffered the effects of a blitzkrieg on piracy, none have won.

We are seeing new, workable, successful ways in understanding and beating piracy, why should we not criticize the old methods? Make yet another wrong that does no one good?
Locking up potential consumers does not making anything right, making someone who downloads a game pay a lifetime of fines only serves greed. It does not beat piracy, it does not promote a reputable image of the prosecuting company and it remains a vicious cycle.


and I'll tell you one thing, pirates do provide a better service then pubs do. The bullshit of not releasing a game worldwide simply because the pub is artificially holding it back is something else. The digital age should solve this problem, but lo and behold, the big pubs are still half assing it.
avatar
orcishgamer: And we do that as we don't see two wrongs making a right, especially when the second wrong seems to be way out of proportion to the harm done by the first wrong. You don't expect your doctor to try amputation as the first treatment for every medical ill, why do so many think the legal version of "going nuclear" is appropriate in this context?
avatar
Phaidox: Kindly invest a lot of money into the development of a game. Once you go bankrupt due to the fact millions of thieves convinced they're entitled to everything for free reward you by preventing your project from breaking even, you'll change your attitude pretty quickly. That's not a given of course, but you're not guaranteed to succeed either, regardless of your product's quality.
For now, your arguments do not hold any merit - it's very easy for you to accuse others of being overprotective of the fruits of their labour since it's not your money that's at stake.
First of all, neither Rovio, CDPR, or anyone else I've mentioned have gone bankrupt. And since many companies are flourishing despite this problem of "rampant piracy" it might just be a teensy bit illogical to lay the failure of any gaming companies directly, or even primarily, at piracy's feet without any further thought on the matter.

Second, I develop software for a living. Much of my software is available under free OSS licenses and I still get paid. My company likewise still gets paid. Some years my company gets paid so much that they hand all their employees big, fat bonus checks with part of the surplus.

Lastly, you're being rather illogical about having to "walk a mile" to judge bad behavior. This is quite simply not realistically required in many cases where we make policy decisions and frankly the side in these policy decisions that tends to get listened to more than any other side is the content producers (and gatekeepers, such as the RIAA, MPAA, author's guild, etc.); see the recent SOPA hearings as an example of this. Even without my experience precisely in software development I'm qualified, as anyone, to study an issue and make a judgement call. No one, anywhere, gets to be some precious little unique snowflake and declare their little fiefdom sacrosanct and above examination.

Most of your counter argument is nothing more than an appeal to emotion.
Post edited February 03, 2012 by orcishgamer
avatar
orcishgamer: And we do that as we don't see two wrongs making a right, especially when the second wrong seems to be way out of proportion to the harm done by the first wrong. You don't expect your doctor to try amputation as the first treatment for every medical ill, why do so many think the legal version of "going nuclear" is appropriate in this context?
avatar
Phaidox: Kindly invest a lot of money into the development of a game. Once you go bankrupt due to the fact millions of thieves convinced they're entitled to everything for free reward you by preventing your project from breaking even, you'll change your attitude pretty quickly. That's not a given of course, but you're not guaranteed to succeed either, regardless of your product's quality.
For now, your arguments do not hold any merit - it's very easy for you to accuse others of being overprotective of the fruits of their labour since it's not your money that's at stake.
What on earth are you talking about? Just days ago the whole mismanagement of THQ poured out and yet again in the industry, stupid business decisions negated any and all 'impact' of piracy.

In the past year alone, miscalculation, wasted investments, over budgeting and misguided marketing cost the industry more jobs then piracy ever could.

Idiotic, selfish, greedy decisions lost the industry millions, not pirates.