Posted August 31, 2012
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oremites
New User
Registered: Oct 2010
From United States
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StingingVelvet
Devil's Advocate
Registered: Nov 2008
From United States
Posted August 31, 2012
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Also, invoking NASA achievement in the past when you cut funding for NASA, really?
They all do this stuff, but he made it really easy, which is why I think it was objectively bad.
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Rohan15
The Joe
Registered: May 2009
From United States
Posted August 31, 2012
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/30/paul-ryans-speech-audacious-untruths
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StingingVelvet
Devil's Advocate
Registered: Nov 2008
From United States
Posted August 31, 2012
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Nobody wants war with Iran - not Romney nor any of his supporters.
And even if he has no real plan to go to war that speech's message was clear. Obama is a big pussy who only cares about the ocean levels while I am a strong ass-kicker who will fuck those Iranians up! That's the message, whether it actually means anything or not.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/30/paul-ryans-speech-audacious-untruths
Post edited August 31, 2012 by StingingVelvet
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HereForTheBeer
Positive Patty
Registered: Oct 2009
From United States
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StingingVelvet
Devil's Advocate
Registered: Nov 2008
From United States
Posted August 31, 2012
From the speech transcript:
"I will honor the institution of marriage."
HereForTheBeer: - There wasn't that much faith in it, at least not to the point that he was criticizing those who do not follow the Judeo-Christian ethos, nor was he cheerleading any particular faith over the rest. Contrary to that point, he specifically mentioned, more than once, freedom of religion. As an atheist, I didn't find anything to object to in this regard. From the speech transcript:
"If every child could drift to sleep feeling wrapped in the love of their family – and God’s love - this world would be a far more gentle and better place."
That one particularly irked me, because it says the world would be a better place if everyone believed in God. I think rather the opposite, since God causes war, basically. For me to really quote how often God came up in the speech I would have to literally quot half the damn thing though, so whatever. It didn't irk you fine, as a conservative Atheist you are probably used to toning it out.
HereForTheBeer: - Free market crap, as in: jobs are good and those jobs come from people who take on risk. Simplify regulation (not remove, nor stop enforcement). From the speech transcript:
"It’s the genius of the American free enterprise system – to harness the extraordinary creativity and talent and industry of the American people with a system that is dedicated to creating tomorrow’s prosperity rather than trying to redistribute today's."
As in, you have the right to try and succeed and if you don't fuck you we're cutting government programs.
HereForTheBeer: - No, he didn't say he'd go to war with Iran. Maybe if one reads into it very heavily. His point was that President Obama said he'd deal with it in a manner that would resolve the matter of Iranian nukes, and that those measures haven't done bupkis ("the centrifuges are still spinning"). However, it did smack a little bit of sabre-rattling when combined with the mention of Putin, though this can just as easily be interpreted to mean utilizing that backbone in various treaties, negotiations, UN talks, etc. Let's face it: Obama has been a doormat in much of this stuff, so it leaves a whole lot of room for one to talk tough without implying any physical threat. So... we agree?
"I will honor the institution of marriage."
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"If every child could drift to sleep feeling wrapped in the love of their family – and God’s love - this world would be a far more gentle and better place."
That one particularly irked me, because it says the world would be a better place if everyone believed in God. I think rather the opposite, since God causes war, basically. For me to really quote how often God came up in the speech I would have to literally quot half the damn thing though, so whatever. It didn't irk you fine, as a conservative Atheist you are probably used to toning it out.
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"It’s the genius of the American free enterprise system – to harness the extraordinary creativity and talent and industry of the American people with a system that is dedicated to creating tomorrow’s prosperity rather than trying to redistribute today's."
As in, you have the right to try and succeed and if you don't fuck you we're cutting government programs.
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Tserge
The Footprint
Registered: Nov 2008
From Singapore
Posted August 31, 2012
His party certainly does and seeing how the party is united when voting on issues...
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HereForTheBeer
Positive Patty
Registered: Oct 2009
From United States
Posted August 31, 2012
Seven words about marriage translates into being against gay and lesbian folks? Really. I don't know the specifics of his stand and this is one that I will actively pursue because of the potential for US Constitutional misuse, but support of traditional marriage is a far cry from being against, say, equal civil rights for gay and lesbian couples and families.
StingingVelvet: From the speech transcript:
"If every child could drift to sleep feeling wrapped in the love of their family – and God’s love - this world would be a far more gentle and better place."
That one particularly irked me, because it says the world would be a better place if everyone believed in God. I think rather the opposite, since God causes war, basically. For me to really quote how often God came up in the speech I would have to literally quot half the damn thing though, so whatever. It didn't irk you fine, as a conservative Atheist you are probably used to toning it out. No, a conservative bent (I'm more libertarian) doesn't make me tone deaf. Instead, over the years I've come to understand that faith should be considered separate from religion. God doesn't cause war: some of the religious institutions behind those worshiped gods cause war. So I read it as speaking of faith, both in the family and in whatever higher power one chooses (or does not choose) to put one's trust into, as being things that will help make for a better world.
StingingVelvet: From the speech transcript:
"It’s the genius of the American free enterprise system – to harness the extraordinary creativity and talent and industry of the American people with a system that is dedicated to creating tomorrow’s prosperity rather than trying to redistribute today's."
As in, you have the right to try and succeed and if you don't fuck you we're cutting government programs. As in, say what? His speech had a distinct LACK of talk about cutting government programs. If anything he spoke of maintaining the level of programs, through reform.
No, we don't agree. You say it's all-but a call to war. I say he was making the point that Obama said he could take care of it by talking with Iranian leaders... and he clearly hasn't. Whether or not Romney can actually make any more headway with further sanctions or other non-military means is a whole 'nother matter, especially since Ahmedinijiad and Co will do whatever they want anyway (which is their right, as a sovereign nation).
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"If every child could drift to sleep feeling wrapped in the love of their family – and God’s love - this world would be a far more gentle and better place."
That one particularly irked me, because it says the world would be a better place if everyone believed in God. I think rather the opposite, since God causes war, basically. For me to really quote how often God came up in the speech I would have to literally quot half the damn thing though, so whatever. It didn't irk you fine, as a conservative Atheist you are probably used to toning it out.
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"It’s the genius of the American free enterprise system – to harness the extraordinary creativity and talent and industry of the American people with a system that is dedicated to creating tomorrow’s prosperity rather than trying to redistribute today's."
As in, you have the right to try and succeed and if you don't fuck you we're cutting government programs.
No, we don't agree. You say it's all-but a call to war. I say he was making the point that Obama said he could take care of it by talking with Iranian leaders... and he clearly hasn't. Whether or not Romney can actually make any more headway with further sanctions or other non-military means is a whole 'nother matter, especially since Ahmedinijiad and Co will do whatever they want anyway (which is their right, as a sovereign nation).
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SimonG
SimonG597
Registered: Sep 2010
From Germany
Posted August 31, 2012
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Also free market crap, survival of the fittest, FAITH FAITH FAITH, and of course down with the lezbians and gays.
I think objectively it was a poor speech, and he seemed nervous and a little off. Also hecklers? Never heard hecklers at a convention speech before.
Thoughts?
Generally I think this is the worst the GOP has been since its founding. The current state of mind in the GOP is racist, anti-progrssive, anti-social, jingoistic and anti-scientific. I would rather vote for the 2000 (or even 2004) GOP than for this one. Romney is actually one of the more likeable people in the bag. Heck, he is basically John Kerry with a different wig. (Not that I liked John Kerry that much).
I've seen the US falling to pieces after the '00 election. I really don't want to see that again.
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StingingVelvet
Devil's Advocate
Registered: Nov 2008
From United States
Posted August 31, 2012
We likely can't find common ground then because I am almost your polar opposite, as I am slowly turning into a very European style socialist over the last 2 years or so.
In any event most of your retorts seem to focus on "well he didn't say that specifically" which is never what I said anyway. No, he never said "I will hinder gay rights" and he never said "I will go to war with Iran," but they NEVER say it like that, ever. I am talking about the messages of his speech, the carefully designed emotions, meanings and statements he was sending out. They were: I am more American, I am strong and will fuck Iran up, har har liberal causes, I can bring the cash, and fuck these weirdos who aren't as American as us.
If you disagree those are the messages sent then fine, agree to disagree. I urge you to read the article linked above about Paul Ryan though, and see who you are voting for.
In any event most of your retorts seem to focus on "well he didn't say that specifically" which is never what I said anyway. No, he never said "I will hinder gay rights" and he never said "I will go to war with Iran," but they NEVER say it like that, ever. I am talking about the messages of his speech, the carefully designed emotions, meanings and statements he was sending out. They were: I am more American, I am strong and will fuck Iran up, har har liberal causes, I can bring the cash, and fuck these weirdos who aren't as American as us.
If you disagree those are the messages sent then fine, agree to disagree. I urge you to read the article linked above about Paul Ryan though, and see who you are voting for.
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GoodOldJim
<3
Registered: Jun 2009
From Canada
Posted August 31, 2012
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Trilarion
New User
Registered: Jul 2010
From Germany
Posted August 31, 2012
As a politician who wants to be elected one has to make tons of promises and not give any details away like how exactly millions of jobs will be created or how the deficit will be decreased while decreasing taxes too. That is the nature of politics.
So I hereby promise free cookies to everybody. :)
So I hereby promise free cookies to everybody. :)
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StingingVelvet
Devil's Advocate
Registered: Nov 2008
From United States
Posted August 31, 2012
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So I hereby promise free cookies to everybody. :)
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SimonG
SimonG597
Registered: Sep 2010
From Germany
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etna87
New User
Registered: Sep 2011
From Germany
Posted August 31, 2012
After reading that Guardian article, I found another one:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/30/election-2012-media-vast-rightwing-conspiracy-stupid
This is more of a general rant about the stupidity of the election process, and I fully agree with it. Democracy is such a great idea - if only it wouldn't lead to the grotesque farce that inevitably follows.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/30/election-2012-media-vast-rightwing-conspiracy-stupid
This is more of a general rant about the stupidity of the election process, and I fully agree with it. Democracy is such a great idea - if only it wouldn't lead to the grotesque farce that inevitably follows.