Posted December 01, 2013
LiquidOxygen80
In the 36 Chmbrs
LiquidOxygen80 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2010
From United States
Vestin
only_droid@town
Vestin Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From Poland
Posted December 01, 2013
wpegg
Optimus Pegg
wpegg Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2009
From United Kingdom
hedwards
buy Evil Genius
hedwards Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2008
From United States
Posted December 01, 2013
hedwards: You think that in large part because nobody is going to fund a study that finds anything else. People assume that women are disadvantaged because they were told that. And they were told that because studies found that. And in large part the studies found that disproportionately because it's a nightmare to get funding for a study to figure out how many women behave like that.
I've known a lot of women over the years and it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that they aren't every bit as sexist and ill-mannered as men are. The difference is that they tend to do different anti-social things. And those antisocial things tend to be considered less serious as women are the ones being oppressed. Good luck tricking a woman into thinking that she's a mother, but paternity fraud is fairly common.
Kennethor: Because you have known a lot of women you know all this? I guess that speaks louder than all the studies and articles and statistics. Even if you are right, that there are a lot of sexist men and women and they are as you say "ill-mannered" whatever that means, there is still pretty strong things that suggests women are in a shall we say "disadvantage" from the moment they are born only because they don't have a penis. I've known a lot of women over the years and it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that they aren't every bit as sexist and ill-mannered as men are. The difference is that they tend to do different anti-social things. And those antisocial things tend to be considered less serious as women are the ones being oppressed. Good luck tricking a woman into thinking that she's a mother, but paternity fraud is fairly common.
USAs "feminists" seem to split the country in two camps, the men and the women. I feel sorry for the few that actually are feminists in USA as they are labelled idiots on sight by some.
Our feminists argue more intellectual and reasonable, the ones that don't are a minority.
No, there isn't strong evidence that women are disadvantaged from birth. Women live longer than men do in any part of the developed world. Here in the US they get twice as many degrees as men do and are grossly underrepresented in the lowest paying and most dangerous professions.
If that's disadvantaged, I'm really curious what your definition of advantaged is, because I do not think it means what you think it means.
What's more, nobody takes abuse of men seriously. Certainly not to the same extent that they take abuse of girls and women seriously. Even though it's barely any more common for men to abuse women than vice versa.
Sogi-Ya: Real feminists are about breaking down the limitations on gender, "Media Feminism" holds about the same stance on equality as the Black Panthers or the KKK.
Kennethor: Finally someone you seems to get that, not just throwing the world feminist left and right when talking about nutjobs. It's not like mainstream feminism isn't filled with nutjobs that fail to hold themselves accountable to the same standards to which they try to hold men.
Or, did I miss the outrage over the domestic violence by women on men and the parades in support of father's rights that the women's movement has been organizing?
Post edited December 01, 2013 by hedwards
Mrstarker
Le ciel est gris
Mrstarker Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: May 2012
From Estonia
Posted December 01, 2013
Vestin: I won't even bother verifying the methodology and numbers of that previous study - if your conclusions are insane, it's your responsibility to say "I know this sounds crazy, but I have solid evidence for the sky being purple!". Mentioning such absurds in passing is simply insulting.
Who knew that invalidating peer-reviewed studies can be so easy! Vestin: One thing to note in these studies is that the ideal female body is not attainable without major surgery
Hold on - why are you calling it "ideal"? IS IT ideal?
If it is ideal - duh, no wonder it's unattainable.
Ideal here refers to the average body of realistic video game characters. It is unattainable for most women, because it is too far removed from a healthy non-obese female body. It is not the case for the average body of male video game characters. Hold on - why are you calling it "ideal"? IS IT ideal?
If it is ideal - duh, no wonder it's unattainable.
Gamers who encounter these characters would view a female who is 5′4′′ tall, with a 29′′ bust, 22′′ waist, and 31′′ hips. Since very few women can achieve these proportions naturally, the majority of female gamers will deviate from this ideal, and the majority of male gamers will never know a real woman whose body is actually this thin.
Gamers who encounter these characters would view a male who is roughly 5'10'' tall, with a 40'' chest and 36'' waist. Since many men can achieve these proportions naturally, it is unlikely that the majority of male game players will deviate too markedly from this ideal.
Post edited December 01, 2013 by Mrstarker
F4LL0UT
Get Showgunners!
F4LL0UT Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2011
From Poland
hedwards
buy Evil Genius
hedwards Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2008
From United States
Posted December 01, 2013
Vestin: I won't even bother verifying the methodology and numbers of that previous study - if your conclusions are insane, it's your responsibility to say "I know this sounds crazy, but I have solid evidence for the sky being purple!". Mentioning such absurds in passing is simply insulting.
Mrstarker: Who knew that refuting peer-reviewed studies can be so easy! Vestin: One thing to note in these studies is that the ideal female body is not attainable without major surgery
Hold on - why are you calling it "ideal"? IS IT ideal?
If it is ideal - duh, no wonder it's unattainable.
Mrstarker: Ideal here refers to the average body of realistic video game characters. It is unattainable for most women, because it is too far removed from a healthy non-obese female body. It is not the case for the average body of male video game characters. Hold on - why are you calling it "ideal"? IS IT ideal?
If it is ideal - duh, no wonder it's unattainable.
Gamers who encounter these characters would view a female who is 5′4′′ tall, with a 29′′ bust, 22′′ waist, and 31′′ hips. Since very few women can achieve these proportions naturally, the majority of female gamers will deviate from this ideal, and the majority of male gamers will never know a real woman whose body is actually this thin.
Gamers who encounter these characters would view a male who is roughly 5'10'' tall, with a 40'' chest and 36'' waist. Since many men can achieve these proportions naturally, it is unlikely that the majority of male game players will deviate too markedly from this ideal.
Personally, I find all this begging the question reasoning to be pretty ridiculous.
Mrstarker
Le ciel est gris
Mrstarker Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: May 2012
From Estonia
Posted December 01, 2013
I'm curious, if peer-reviewed research does not constitute as actual evidence, then what does?
As I posted earlier: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11199-009-9683-8
The present study utilized an experimental design to investigate the short term effects of exposure to sexualized female video game characters on gender stereotyping and female self-concept in emerging adults. Bussey and Bandura’s (1999) social cognitive theory of gender development and differentiation was used to explicate this relationship. Undergraduate students (N = 328) at a large U.S. Southwestern university participated in the study. Students were randomly assigned to play a “sexualized” heroine, a “non-sexualized” heroine, or no video game; then completed an online questionnaire. Female self-efficacy was negatively affected by game play with the sexualized female character. Results cautiously suggest that playing a sexualized video game heroine unfavorably influenced people’s beliefs about women in the real world.
As I posted earlier: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11199-009-9683-8
The present study utilized an experimental design to investigate the short term effects of exposure to sexualized female video game characters on gender stereotyping and female self-concept in emerging adults. Bussey and Bandura’s (1999) social cognitive theory of gender development and differentiation was used to explicate this relationship. Undergraduate students (N = 328) at a large U.S. Southwestern university participated in the study. Students were randomly assigned to play a “sexualized” heroine, a “non-sexualized” heroine, or no video game; then completed an online questionnaire. Female self-efficacy was negatively affected by game play with the sexualized female character. Results cautiously suggest that playing a sexualized video game heroine unfavorably influenced people’s beliefs about women in the real world.
Post edited December 01, 2013 by Mrstarker
keeveek
NOPE
keeveek Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2009
From Poland
Posted December 01, 2013
Mrstarker: The present study utilized an experimental design to investigate the short term effects of exposure to sexualized female video game characters on gender stereotyping and female self-concept in emerging adults. Bussey and Bandura’s (1999) social cognitive theory of gender development and differentiation was used to explicate this relationship. Undergraduate students (N = 328) at a large U.S. Southwestern university participated in the study. Students were randomly assigned to play a “sexualized” heroine, a “non-sexualized” heroine, or no video game; then completed an online questionnaire. Female self-efficacy was negatively affected by game play with the sexualized female character. Results cautiously suggest that playing a sexualized video game heroine unfavorably influenced people’s beliefs about women in the real world.
Lol, no shit. If someone questioned me about my masculinity immediately after me watching Terminator / Predator I would probably respond differently than after watching Mr. Bean. And women wearing corsets centuries ago probably also were influenced by mass media... Women colouring their hai blonde with bird guano ages ago probably were influenced by barbie stereotype.
Post edited December 01, 2013 by keeveek
F4LL0UT
Get Showgunners!
F4LL0UT Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2011
From Poland
Posted December 01, 2013
Don't be ridiculous. However, I think that all those Greek statues depicting perfect male bodies may have resulted from the emergence of video games. Oh wait!
Sogi-Ya
<- OLD.
Sogi-Ya Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jul 2009
From United States
Posted December 01, 2013
Mrstarker: The present study utilized an experimental design to investigate the short term effects of exposure to sexualized female video game characters on gender stereotyping and female self-concept in emerging adults. Bussey and Bandura’s (1999) social cognitive theory of gender development and differentiation was used to explicate this relationship. Undergraduate students (N = 328) at a large U.S. Southwestern university participated in the study. Students were randomly assigned to play a “sexualized” heroine, a “non-sexualized” heroine, or no video game; then completed an online questionnaire. Female self-efficacy was negatively affected by game play with the sexualized female character. Results cautiously suggest that playing a sexualized video game heroine unfavorably influenced people’s beliefs about women in the real world.
keeveek: Lol, no shit. If someone questioned me about my masculinity immediately after me watching Terminator / Predator I would probably respond differently than after watching Mr. Bean. And women wearing corsets centuries ago probably also were influenced by mass media... Women colouring their hai blonde with bird guano ages ago probably were influenced by barbie stereotype.
"media" is just the latest tool in pushing conformity.
*edit*
not that crushing your intestines into your ribcage or saturating your hair with feces is all that healthy, but the main issue with modern sexualized conformist media is that it is intentionally damaging to self esteem so women buy into consumerist horse shit and buy the fuck out of makup and idiotic clothing.
That type of shit doesn't really work on the general male population because we are so so arrogant, self righteous, and oblivious we either don't notice when someone is trying to subtly undermine our self image or think they are talking about someone else ... however we are pretty lazy and easily amused so we get escapism delivered to us on a platter (Sports on TV, Action movies, violent Videogames, porn).
*edit #2*
So, yeah, in the old days Men actually had to go beat the shit out of someone / murder someone to be "Manly" & Women really did have worry about their attractiveness because with the way laws were at the time the only thing protecting them from being rape-enslave-murdered was getting taken in by the biggest billy bad ass around.
The end goal actually was fucking, not just the mental appeal of thinking you are a great fuck, since male security was in producing offspring & female security was in being an appealing medium for it.
If you look at the over all sex appeal of cultures before the Victorian times, the high mark in sex appeal was big fat chicks who could fuck a lot and spit a kid down her birthing canal like a water slide.
Post edited December 01, 2013 by Sogi-Ya
keeveek
NOPE
keeveek Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2009
From Poland
Vestin
only_droid@town
Vestin Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From Poland
Posted December 01, 2013
I didn't ask for these powers...
Honestly - do you expect me to believe a study that SUGGESTS that playing games causes men to outright support rape? As in - I and people like me are supposedly potential rapists. Not in the general, philosophical "oh - a murderer is a man just like you", but in a more down-to-earth "you are a man just like a rapist... except you haven't raped anyone... yet". Is this the level of academic discourse that I am supposed to accept, and the sort of claims I am supposed to believe in?
Either the study is right, and it's a goddamn rapefest over there, total societal collapse with what few people remain safe writing and publishing studies on gender issues, or the issue is embellished as hell.
Think about this - A LOT of people play games. The claim is that a lot of them (although - only men are mentioned for whatever reason) support or at least don't mind rape. That's an ENORMOUS chunk of the population. If the claim is true, you should be able to go over there, rape someone in broad daylight and brofist the onlookers once you're done. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT TO BE THE CASE.
Hold on - since when does "ideal" mean "AVERAGE in fiction"? That doesn't sound right...
Honestly - do you expect me to believe a study that SUGGESTS that playing games causes men to outright support rape? As in - I and people like me are supposedly potential rapists. Not in the general, philosophical "oh - a murderer is a man just like you", but in a more down-to-earth "you are a man just like a rapist... except you haven't raped anyone... yet". Is this the level of academic discourse that I am supposed to accept, and the sort of claims I am supposed to believe in?
Either the study is right, and it's a goddamn rapefest over there, total societal collapse with what few people remain safe writing and publishing studies on gender issues, or the issue is embellished as hell.
Think about this - A LOT of people play games. The claim is that a lot of them (although - only men are mentioned for whatever reason) support or at least don't mind rape. That's an ENORMOUS chunk of the population. If the claim is true, you should be able to go over there, rape someone in broad daylight and brofist the onlookers once you're done. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT TO BE THE CASE.
Hold on - since when does "ideal" mean "AVERAGE in fiction"? That doesn't sound right...
Mrstarker
Le ciel est gris
Mrstarker Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: May 2012
From Estonia
Posted December 01, 2013
Vestin: Honestly - do you expect me to believe a study that SUGGESTS that playing games causes men to outright support rape?
The study doesn't actually say that anywhere. Correlation does not imply causation. It merely mentions another study that found a positive correlation while discussing what research has been conducted before on the topic of gender and media. Considering the viewpoint espoused earlier in this thread that rape victims kind of have it coming to them, I would not say it is that far fetched. The correlation, I mean.
It doesn't mean literally an ideal body, it refers to a body ideal, the body ideal being in the form of averaged measurements of fictional characters encountered in video games.
Post edited December 01, 2013 by Mrstarker
keeveek
NOPE
keeveek Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2009
From Poland
Posted December 01, 2013
Sogi-Ya: not that crushing your intestines into your ribcage or saturating your hair with feces is all that healthy, but the main issue with modern sexualized conformist media is that it is intentionally damaging to self esteem so women buy into consumerist horse shit and buy the fuck out of makup and idiotic clothing.
You mean it works only for women like women are so naive? Men buy tons of shit they don't even need because media are praying on men's love for vanities. Electronics, cars, hair products, body building products are shoved down our throatrs and we don't even notice. Different kind of products, the same result.