Posted November 30, 2013
Vestin
only_droid@town
Vestin Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From Poland
Garrison72
New User
Garrison72 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2010
From United States
Mrstarker
Le ciel est gris
Mrstarker Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: May 2012
From Estonia
Posted November 30, 2013
Vestin: Could you, for the benefit of everyone, explain to us WHERE and HOW that is the case, and WHY you believe this to be bad?
Frankly, I'm amazed that I would even have to do that, but okay. Here's a link to a somewhat recent study: http://www.google.ee/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDUQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nouspace.net%2Fdene%2F475%2Fvideogames.pdf&ei=HJOaUumPDvDy7AavhIDgBQ&usg=AFQjCNFo7Ahfp4bT70F_1xgf39SJ0nUGJg&sig2=BaDgv0ri36dcCc1R-AORXg Let me quote from the abstract:
Female characters are more likely than male characters to be portrayed as sexualized (60% versus 1%), scantily clad (39% versus 8%) and as showing a mix of sex and aggression (39 versus 1%).
Research suggests that exposure to physical appearance ideals in the media are connected with poor body image (Dohnt & Tiggemann 2006; Tiggemann and McGill 2004) and self-destructive behaviors such as pathogenic dieting practices (Thomsen et al. 2002). Media also exert a strong influence on male body image, as stereotypes of hyper-masculinity are connected with the drive for muscularity, motivating boys and young men to engage in unhealthy practices such as compulsive weight training and illegal steroid use (Smolak and Stein 2006).
Recently, Harrison (2003) demonstrated that the modern media ideal for feminine beauty is what she calls “curvaceously thin.” For example, the ideal bust–waist–hip proportion of 36–24–36 would correspond to women’s clothing sizes 10–2–4, which translates to an abnormally small waist and hips, but a medium-sized (and therefore relatively large) bust. Using a sample of 231 male and female college students (average age 20), Harrison (2003) found that exposure to curvaceously thin images of females predicted the personal acceptance of this figure as an ideal by both men and women. Furthermore, greater exposure to the curvaceously thin ideal predicted approval of women’s use of cosmetic surgery by both men and women.
Post edited November 30, 2013 by Mrstarker
Red_Avatar
Be vigilant
Red_Avatar Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2008
From Belgium
Posted December 01, 2013
Just a note but: it's pretty much been shown through studies, that the worst influence by a huge margin, are TV and movies because girls actually look up at actresses. That article makes a lot of assumptions by drawing lines from TV/movies to games, it seems to me, which is pretty stupid if you understand how the two differ.
For starters, the games that "sin" the most are barely played by girls, games are still clearly fake in design, are often stylized and don't contain real actors for people to grow attached to and look up at. As such, I believe the influence on people is almost zero when it comes to body image.
In the end, TV and movies are the ones that should tone it down first - it's pointless to go after games when a far larger source, like 100-fold as bad, exists and overshadows games. That's the problem I have with RPS being all white knight on our collective asses - it's akin to a forest fire going on to your left and some dweep bitching at someone else for lighting a cigarette because the smoke bothers them. It shows such blind-sided approach that it's painful. Not to mention RPS do far more damage than good by creating "us vs them" attitudes all over the place.
For starters, the games that "sin" the most are barely played by girls, games are still clearly fake in design, are often stylized and don't contain real actors for people to grow attached to and look up at. As such, I believe the influence on people is almost zero when it comes to body image.
In the end, TV and movies are the ones that should tone it down first - it's pointless to go after games when a far larger source, like 100-fold as bad, exists and overshadows games. That's the problem I have with RPS being all white knight on our collective asses - it's akin to a forest fire going on to your left and some dweep bitching at someone else for lighting a cigarette because the smoke bothers them. It shows such blind-sided approach that it's painful. Not to mention RPS do far more damage than good by creating "us vs them" attitudes all over the place.
viperfdl
New User
viperfdl Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2008
From Other
Posted December 01, 2013
I can understand why feminists are disgusted by female costumes in games. Just look at all those innocent cosplay girls that are brutally forced by horny pedophiles to wear this light costumes:
victims gallery 1
victims gallery 2
victims gallery 3
How easy they could catch a cold in winter...
And as we all already know games force people to become sexist because games also makes young man run amok!
:->
victims gallery 1
victims gallery 2
victims gallery 3
How easy they could catch a cold in winter...
And as we all already know games force people to become sexist because games also makes young man run amok!
:->
Post edited December 01, 2013 by viperfdl
Mrstarker
Le ciel est gris
Mrstarker Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: May 2012
From Estonia
infinite9
No Longer New!
infinite9 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
Posted December 01, 2013
Whenever I read articles or comments complaining about "sexualization" of female characters, I keep wondering why the complaints are one-sided. The social justice zealots shriek over images of "attractive" (I use quotes because I don't get aroused by pixels or drawings) women but they never seem to complain about sexualized male characters.
The following is about toys but illustrates my point:
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/32/c0/9a/32c09a7645e67679ecee082ec60f815f.jpg
The following is about toys but illustrates my point:
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/32/c0/9a/32c09a7645e67679ecee082ec60f815f.jpg
Red_Avatar
Be vigilant
Red_Avatar Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2008
From Belgium
Posted December 01, 2013
You basically ignored 90% of my post and the entire point I was making ... .
YOU linked an article that falsely linked games and portrayal of women to a bad body image when I was merely showing how it's a pointless comparison. Girls aren't so stupid as to compare themselves to pixels of non-existing people - especially when the exposure is very very low in the first place. They DO compare themselves to very slim actresses (which are everywhere in the media) which, studies have shown, is where the real problem lies.
If you want a nice comparison: lots of girls wanted to be like Angelina Jolie, but expected themselves to look like the game-version of Lara Croft.
To repeat my point: it's wasted time to talk about negative body image when there's so little exposure and even then, it has very little to no influence. There's a MUCH better argument to be had about how it influences guys and specifically how they expect girls to look - and even there, TV & movies are a far bigger influence.
YOU linked an article that falsely linked games and portrayal of women to a bad body image when I was merely showing how it's a pointless comparison. Girls aren't so stupid as to compare themselves to pixels of non-existing people - especially when the exposure is very very low in the first place. They DO compare themselves to very slim actresses (which are everywhere in the media) which, studies have shown, is where the real problem lies.
If you want a nice comparison: lots of girls wanted to be like Angelina Jolie, but expected themselves to look like the game-version of Lara Croft.
To repeat my point: it's wasted time to talk about negative body image when there's so little exposure and even then, it has very little to no influence. There's a MUCH better argument to be had about how it influences guys and specifically how they expect girls to look - and even there, TV & movies are a far bigger influence.
infinite9: Whenever I read articles or comments complaining about "sexualization" of female characters, I keep wondering why the complaints are one-sided. The social justice zealots shriek over images of "attractive" (I use quotes because I don't get aroused by pixels or drawings) women but they never seem to complain about sexualized male characters.
The following is about toys but illustrates my point:
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/32/c0/9a/32c09a7645e67679ecee082ec60f815f.jpg
With Barbie, the real joke is that these are toys for girls. They're not even designed to appeal to guys and the only reason Barbie is so thin, is because girls prefer them that way - something which the media time and time again, neglect to mention. As kids, we preferred our toys beefy and muscular as well - like He-Man - so it's more about fantasy, about dreaming of being very thin and slim and pretty vs being very strong and muscular and powerful. They're idle dreams but kids PREFER it that way. You might as well complain about how Harry Potter promotes magic - it's FANTASY.The following is about toys but illustrates my point:
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/32/c0/9a/32c09a7645e67679ecee082ec60f815f.jpg
Post edited December 01, 2013 by Red_Avatar
keeveek
NOPE
keeveek Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2009
From Poland
Posted December 01, 2013
Men and feminine commentary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77lPjNhL5X4
Tough guys stereotype:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoABPi5wTI4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77lPjNhL5X4
Tough guys stereotype:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoABPi5wTI4
Post edited December 01, 2013 by keeveek
Shadowcat69
Tactician
Shadowcat69 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2012
From France
Posted December 01, 2013
infinite9: Whenever I read articles or comments complaining about "sexualization" of female characters, I keep wondering why the complaints are one-sided. The social justice zealots shriek over images of "attractive" (I use quotes because I don't get aroused by pixels or drawings) women but they never seem to complain about sexualized male characters.
The following is about toys but illustrates my point:
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/32/c0/9a/32c09a7645e67679ecee082ec60f815f.jpg
That might be because it's not a problem. If you're a man, you're never gonna get insults and being shamed for being in your underwear and muscly. This is pretty much the man ideal (muscly, virile, manly, powerful, seemingly in control). The character's name is "He-Man" for chissakes. The following is about toys but illustrates my point:
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/32/c0/9a/32c09a7645e67679ecee082ec60f815f.jpg
And please, He-Man isn't an unhealthy and unfair standard of beauty leading to a crisis for young boys and their self esteem. No one ever said "I'm not as pretty as He-Man, I can't bend metal with my little fingers, i'm a failure" and has gone on a depression because of this. Actually no male character is the cause to this kind of thing. Female "models" are, however, the cause of depression, anorexia and other severe mental disorders and physical problems. Boys don't die because they tried too hard to look like He-Man. On the other hand, because of exactly "unrealistic, unfair and unhealthy standards of beauty", many girls are suffering from low self esteem, bullying, psychological disorders, eating disorders and other cheerful things.
Bit off-topic here, but just look up videos of men weight lifting on youtube and see the comments. Try to count the insults. You can count them on your hand. Now look up the same videos for the opposing genders.
So, no, this very image is sexist and against equality as a whole.
infinite9
No Longer New!
infinite9 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
Posted December 01, 2013
infinite9: Whenever I read articles or comments complaining about "sexualization" of female characters, I keep wondering why the complaints are one-sided. The social justice zealots shriek over images of "attractive" (I use quotes because I don't get aroused by pixels or drawings) women but they never seem to complain about sexualized male characters.
The following is about toys but illustrates my point:
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/32/c0/9a/32c09a7645e67679ecee082ec60f815f.jpg
Red_Avatar: With Barbie, the real joke is that these are toys for girls. They're not even designed to appeal to guys and the only reason Barbie is so thin, is because girls prefer them that way - something which the media time and time again, neglect to mention. As kids, we preferred our toys beefy and muscular as well - like He-Man - so it's more about fantasy, about dreaming of being very thin and slim and pretty vs being very strong and muscular and powerful. They're idle dreams but kids PREFER it that way. You might as well complain about how Harry Potter promotes magic - it's FANTASY. The following is about toys but illustrates my point:
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/32/c0/9a/32c09a7645e67679ecee082ec60f815f.jpg
Also, the avatars that gamers control are also fantasy and I can argue that the avatars look the way the players want them to look. In other words, you accidentally gave credibility to the example I used.
keeveek
NOPE
keeveek Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2009
From Poland
Posted December 01, 2013
You probably never heard that if you don't have Abs than you are a pussy and not a man. You probably never heard that if you like take care of children you are a pussy, not a man. You probably never heard that if you shave your armpits then you're a pussy, not a man.
Please stop with "this is not stereotype, this is ideal" bullshit.
You fucking kidding me? Your ignorance is horrible. Please look up the two videos I linked in my previous post.
Please stop with "this is not stereotype, this is ideal" bullshit.
You fucking kidding me? Your ignorance is horrible. Please look up the two videos I linked in my previous post.
Post edited December 01, 2013 by keeveek
Mrstarker
Le ciel est gris
Mrstarker Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: May 2012
From Estonia
Posted December 01, 2013
Red_Avatar: YOU linked an article that falsely linked games and portrayal of women to a bad body image when I was merely showing how it's a pointless comparison. Girls aren't so stupid as to compare themselves to pixels of non-existing people - especially when the exposure is very very low in the first place. They DO compare themselves to very slim actresses (which are everywhere in the media) which, studies have shown, is where the real problem lies.
If you want a nice comparison: lots of girls wanted to be like Angelina Jolie, but expected themselves to look like the game-version of Lara Croft.
To repeat my point: it's wasted time to talk about negative body image when there's so little exposure and even then, it has very little to no influence. There's a MUCH better argument to be had about how it influences guys and specifically how they expect girls to look - and even there, TV & movies are a far bigger influence.
1) In the previous post I linked to a study that specifically shows that women are affected negatively by a sexualised character. If you want a nice comparison: lots of girls wanted to be like Angelina Jolie, but expected themselves to look like the game-version of Lara Croft.
To repeat my point: it's wasted time to talk about negative body image when there's so little exposure and even then, it has very little to no influence. There's a MUCH better argument to be had about how it influences guys and specifically how they expect girls to look - and even there, TV & movies are a far bigger influence.
2) Women do play video games.
3) TV and movies may have a bigger influence, but it does not mean we should ignore issues in video games.
Post edited December 01, 2013 by Mrstarker
Melhelix
Silversmith
Melhelix Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2012
From United States
Posted December 01, 2013
Red_Avatar: Just a note but: it's pretty much been shown through studies, that the worst influence by a huge margin, are TV and movies because girls actually look up at actresses. That article makes a lot of assumptions by drawing lines from TV/movies to games, it seems to me, which is pretty stupid if you understand how the two differ.
For starters, the games that "sin" the most are barely played by girls, games are still clearly fake in design, are often stylized and don't contain real actors for people to grow attached to and look up at. As such, I believe the influence on people is almost zero when it comes to body image.
In the end, TV and movies are the ones that should tone it down first - it's pointless to go after games when a far larger source, like 100-fold as bad, exists and overshadows games. That's the problem I have with RPS being all white knight on our collective asses - it's akin to a forest fire going on to your left and some dweep bitching at someone else for lighting a cigarette because the smoke bothers them. It shows such blind-sided approach that it's painful. Not to mention RPS do far more damage than good by creating "us vs them" attitudes all over the place.
I can assure you, having a pair of ovaries does not affect whether or not you enjoy a certain genre of video games. Given that the majority of female characters in video games are depicted in a similar fashion, I am quite curious what specific games or genres do not "sin" that you think are "played by girls." For starters, the games that "sin" the most are barely played by girls, games are still clearly fake in design, are often stylized and don't contain real actors for people to grow attached to and look up at. As such, I believe the influence on people is almost zero when it comes to body image.
In the end, TV and movies are the ones that should tone it down first - it's pointless to go after games when a far larger source, like 100-fold as bad, exists and overshadows games. That's the problem I have with RPS being all white knight on our collective asses - it's akin to a forest fire going on to your left and some dweep bitching at someone else for lighting a cigarette because the smoke bothers them. It shows such blind-sided approach that it's painful. Not to mention RPS do far more damage than good by creating "us vs them" attitudes all over the place.
---
Personally I think the market will eventually reward diversity of characters as the customers migrate towards purchasing what they find to be the best match to what they want to play. If it's not viable then it wont sell. If it is viable then it will. Choice just has to be offered in the first place so people can, you know, choose. Already there is a bit of a shift as certain companies start listening closer to the customers, particularly with Kickstarter. Take Project Eternity's Cadegund for example. Her original concept art looked like , but due to a negative reception on the boards she now looks like [url=http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/eternity.gamepedia.com/3/3a/Cadegund.png]this. Was it a necessary change? Was it a good change? Depends entirely on your point of view; the fact is though that it was a change. A change by Obsidian in direct response to customer feedback. That's pretty spiffy.
Mrstarker
Le ciel est gris
Mrstarker Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: May 2012
From Estonia
Posted December 01, 2013
Melhelix: Take Project Eternity's Cadegund for example. Her original concept art looked like , but due to a negative reception on the boards she now looks like [url=http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/eternity.gamepedia.com/3/3a/Cadegund.png]this. Was it a necessary change? Was it a good change? Depends entirely on your point of view; the fact is though that it was a change. A change by Obsidian in direct response to customer feedback. That's pretty spiffy.
Evidently, they have not done their research: Edit: oh, and speaking of breastplates:
Post edited December 01, 2013 by Mrstarker