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keeveek: Because clearly there aren't any.

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/owGykVbfgUE/maxresdefault.jpg

(imagine if this commercial featured a woman instead of a man - the shitstorm would've been heard on Mars)
Just for fun, here is a set of commercials geared specifically to women that features a nice looking dude who constantly loses his clothing in some form or another, or ends up with a wet t-shirt. Obviously the commercial is poking fun of other oversexed commercials, but it is still using sex to sell the product at the same time. I have yet to hear anyone complain about these commercials, and in fact, the guy ended up on quite a few talk shows (once again, shirtless). Can only imagine what would have happened if the genders had been swapped as you brought up with your example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhvfAAdK3Dw

(I totally love these btw)
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Kennethor: Lame to mention his/her avatar as it has very little to do with the subject...
I thought part of the subject at hand was the attire that fictional women was wearing in the media at hand ie games.

Or did I misunderstand the thread?
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HereForTheBeer: Interesting - and maybe ironic - avatar. I'm curious to know which qualities it represents for you, given the subject matter of the thread and your particular stance..
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Siannah: That there are males who don't necessarily have a problem with sexualized content in their games, but don't need it in every second title and / or think it's been overdone / overused.
If these are your arguments, I'm at a loss how you guys can claim RPS doing it the wrong way.
/thread closed
Post edited November 26, 2013 by Siannah
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Kennethor: Lame to mention his/her avatar as it has very little to do with the subject...
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Rusty_Gunn: I thought part of the subject at hand was the attire that fictional women was wearing in the media at hand ie games.

Or did I misunderstand the thread?
We were talking about games specifically, and not about members of this thread. It was such a lame and bad argument that it's ridicolous.
If you can't see the silliness about attacking another persons avatar, I am not going to try to make you understand.
It's still a nice site, just ignore any articles dealing with this subject, and any reviews of games with female characters.
Just been trying to point out that there's more to a character than the skin that it - often briefly - wears, and I'm assuming your avatar also represents more than a sexy female.

But I'm curious to know why that one was chosen given that this is exactly what you're complaining about. I'm not trying to pick a nit, but would like your input on it.

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Kennethor: If you can't see the silliness about attacking another persons avatar, I am not going to try to make you understand.
It's not an attack. I'm trying to understand the dichotomy it presents. As stated earlier, if that character in the avatar represents other qualities beyond the skin (she appears to be carrying a sword, for instance) that the member respects and admires, then I'd like to know about it. And if this is the case, then this is what I've been saying: that there is more to a good character than the visual representation that has little bearing on the player or gameplay in this type of game.
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HereForTheBeer: Just been trying to point out that there's more to a character than the skin that it - often briefly - wears, and I'm assuming your avatar also represents more than a sexy female.

But I'm curious to know why that one was chosen given that this is exactly what you're complaining about. I'm not trying to pick a nit, but would like your input on it.

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Kennethor: If you can't see the silliness about attacking another persons avatar, I am not going to try to make you understand.
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HereForTheBeer: It's not an attack. I'm trying to understand the dichotomy it presents. As stated earlier, if that character in the avatar represents other qualities beyond the skin (she appears to be carrying a sword, for instance) that the member respects and admires, then I'd like to know about it. And if this is the case, then this is what I've been saying: that there is more to a good character than the visual representation that has little bearing on the player or gameplay in this type of game.
Sure there is probably more, but is there an actual story reason for the character to be going around sword-fighting wearing a bikini? If the character has male comrades, are they fighting wearing speedos?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTGh0EMmMC8
Post edited November 26, 2013 by kalirion
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kalirion: Sure there is probably more, but is there an actual story reason for the character to be going around sword-fighting wearing a bikini? If the character has male comrades, are they fighting wearing speedos?
They're the exploding barrels of fantasy gaming, aren't they ;)?
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kalirion: Sure there is probably more, but is there an actual story reason for the character to be going around sword-fighting wearing a bikini? If the character has male comrades, are they fighting wearing speedos?
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Vestin: They're the exploding barrels of fantasy gaming, aren't they ;)?
Hmm, you may be on to something here...
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Kurina: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhvfAAdK3Dw

(I totally love these btw)
Haha, am I a little bit weird for liking it? :D

Sure there is probably more, but is there an actual story reason for the character to be going around sword-fighting wearing a bikini? If the character has male comrades, are they fighting wearing speedos?
That's part of it. This is the complaint being made while using exactly that type of female character to represent that user - and for a long time now. So there must be more to that character, and that's my point: how the overall character, and not just the skin, relates to the game and the player her/himself. This is why some (many? most?) of us see it as no big deal, and I'm trying to get Siannah to understand that position (but not necessarily agree) using her own example. Nothing more to it than that.
There's loads ugly rape apologia in this thread, some Dunning-Kruger on the side, and a lack of empathy that'd get you killed as a replicant.

Thought exercise: imagine you got drunk with your dudebros and some of them raped you. Or inserted an eel in your asshole. If you nevar evar get drunk, imagine it happened to a relative who does.
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Mrstarker: If most women wanted muscular men, there would be more demand for actors like Stallone and Vin Diesel and less demand for actors like DiCaprio and Depp.
Fabio and romance novels. Point invalid. :3
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seaspanky: I find this idea that the only thing happening is merely innocent "questions, discussion and dialogue" rather ridiculous when that very post I responded to listed out several methods of social pressure to try to force specific changes.
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babark: The example that started this topic was an RPS interviewer simply asking about a character design in a game. There had been no animosity, or censure, or hatred.
I never mentioned "hatred". I did however allude to specific agenda driven efforts to use political correctness as a standard to hold people to. What he specifically said was "RPS: But it’s not even about a message. The goal is to let people have fun in an environment where they can feel awesome without being weirded out or even objectified. This is a genre about empowerment. Why shouldn’t everyone feel empowered? That’s what it’s about at the end of the day: letting everyone have a fair chance to feel awesome."

The RPS interviewer informs the game director that the entire "goal" of his game is actually to "let people have fun in an environment where they can feel awesome without being weirded out or even objectified", that the entire MOBA genre is actually about "empowerment" because "That’s what it’s about at the end of the day: letting everyone have a fair chance to feel awesome"... hahahaha. What kind of delusional half-wit even voices such dimwittery to the game director of a game in an interview, arrogantly asserting his own agenda driven delusions concerning the supposed "real" underlying purpose of his game and the genre at large?

Is this what passes for "journalism" today? An egocentric condescending end to an interview with a promised further hit piece to come?


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babark: But since you brought it up, do you think there is something wrong with trying to motivate the industry towards a more balanced portrayal of gender in video games?
And what balance is this exactly that you are referring to? You know, the one that is always vaguely described but never defined. What exactly does a "balanced portrayal of gender in video games" entail exactly? An equality of outcomes? Where the "portrayal of gender" matches the real life percentages of women vs men, or male vs female video game players? What exactly? I think that the reason I have yet to see this defined is because once it is defined, it loses its edge and power to leverage and control, something that it has when it is purposely vague and ambiguous. The obvious answer would be there should be no forced or contrived "balanced portrayal of gender in video games" because that only serves the interests of the pressure group demanding unequal protection and status. I, as the end consumer, am best served by a standard that allows for and promotes the ability of creators to create their works and then have the market decide what makes it or doesn't based on some kind of standard of excellence, rather than false contrived standards of political correctness and racial/gender quotas. But your ilk always loses that battle for the minds, hearts, and pocketbooks of the masses, which is why the efforts to what amounts to thought control is the inevitable choice to force change in the direction they desire.


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babark: As a perhaps somewhat extreme example, there isn't really any specific censorship going on with regards to such ideas in movies (aside from a rating, of course), but that there has been a reduction in the huge amount of cowboy movies where the heroic cowboys gleefully kill the savage and villainous red indians.
The reason that there was a reduction in the production of Westerns wasn't because moviegoers suddenly realized that what they loved was actually nothing more than "heroic cowboys gleefully kill the savage and villainous red indians". You couldn't know or understand westerns and then twist and distort the entire genre like that. The reason they are no longer being made is thatwesterns aren't perceived as profitable ventures nowadays, especially since the advent of big tent-pole moviemaking by the studios, the huge failure of Westerns like "Heaven's Gate", the shift towards profitability through foreign markets, and lastly shifts by the studios towards a flawed knee-jerk politically correct Lowest Common Denominator type products. Profits drive production.


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babark: As an aside, and completely divorced from the subject at hand (of any supposed underhandedness on the part of RPS or the industry in general) do you believe that gender portrayal in games is balanced? Do you believe it should not be improved?
I answered this above. But again,
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timppu: One comment I've heard from some women about adding more sexy and under-dressed men to commercials and such has been "so then men know how women feel when there are good-looking women in ads!". So it is not that much that they enjoy seeing hairy-assed men in commercials, but some kind of revenge against men.
Women who say that are liars. Blaming the mass media for their insecurities is just plain bullshit. Women have felt insecure about their bodies since well before the invention of mass media. And even today, eating disorders are even more prevalent in places where the female body isn't shown in that fashion.

For example, women have been dyeing their hair blond since the 16th century and there really wasn't much opportunity to get any sort of mass media at that point. Even just a town paper was not going to have any real pictures.

The reason why women feel that way is because they're too lazy and unmotivated to pick up guys. If you're expecting to attract a man, then of course you're going to be tuned into the perceived competition. Never mind that men aren't quite that shallow.