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Games should be for everybody, not just for boys who don't care.
If you can't understand the problem, do some research.

http://trettiotreanledningar.com/33-reasons-to-be-a-feminist/
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RealWeaponX: Yes, the Goodbye Deponia article was overtaken by John Walker's personal views on the content rather than focusing on gameplay, however it should be noted that RPS do not do traditional "reviews", but rather pure opinion pieces based on their experience playing the game - something which many find more appealing than an arbitrary number out of 10.
Apologies, but I just found it very funny that someone is saying that someone else is not doing traditional reviews, but opinion pieces based on experiences instead. No harm intended, it just made me laugh. Cheers.
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RealWeaponX: Yes, the Goodbye Deponia article was overtaken by John Walker's personal views on the content rather than focusing on gameplay, however it should be noted that RPS do not do traditional "reviews", but rather pure opinion pieces based on their experience playing the game - something which many find more appealing than an arbitrary number out of 10.
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amok: Apologies, but I just found it very funny that someone is saying that someone else is not doing traditional reviews, but opinion pieces based on experiences instead. No harm intended, it just made me laugh. Cheers.
I thought all reviews are based on reviewers experience playing the game?
I really find it strange that the very people who complain that videogames are not valuated as a legit media start panicking when games get analysed the same way as movies or films, that is also in terms of narration, values, representations, etc.

Or does this vocal crowd also find it strange when critics point out sexism in movies (like "sucker punch", etc ?).

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Crosmando: EDIT: Though it is curious how the criticisms of "sexualized" character design in games is almost the same as conservative criticism of the same thing. I wonder if RPS and their fellow travelers would probably consider Saudi Arabia a paradise, no women with sexualized attire over there.
Firstly, the western form of sexism that implicitely pressures women (through icons, models and expectations) into "sexuating" themselves for men (through attires and makeup) while men aren't demanded this, is indeed one "feminist" criticism often emitted by north-african muslims. It's very ambivalent, as it goes with the idea that western girls are liberated, easy women, devoid of moral and dignity, which is both a ground for disgust and attraction (think of the icon of the "bitch", as a stigma and as a fantasy), which leads for instance to both disrespect and to heavy flirting towards western female tourists. In a way, western women represent the same kind of "sexual savagery" than western colonists were imagining (and falsely describing) about natives, in the previous centuries. But the difference is that muslims see western women as sexual victims of a society of consumption. So yes, this echoes feminist critics, and, moreover, this grounds a valid criticism of western culture which does validate the muslim culture in the eyes of its members.

However, the point that traditional (especially fundamentalist) muslims miss, is that their own norms are based on the very same problem. Women, and feminine traits, are also over-sexualized (compared to mesculine traits) in the muslim universe. Women are also seen foremost as sexual products, tossed around just like the western hero's kidnapped girlfriend that the big baddie wants to marry too. For instance, their hair are a very strong sexual symbol (male hair isn't), and, for some, their face itself is an inacceptable source of desire. In other words, in both cultural universes the issue is the same : women are regarded as objects, their exist through the effect they have upon males, their function is to satisfy a man's sexual urges. It's simply dealt with differently in both cultures, one embraces it while pushing (and representing) behaviours of displayed availability, the other by repressing it behind veils of unavailability. Feminism is about shattering the model that underlies both conditions, and defining women as "just as sexual as men, no more, no less", with no different codes or obligations or expectations or repeated objectification.

Basically, this.

So "feminists" of both sides are right to attack each others. It is unfortunate that, on both sides, "feminist" ideas serve mostly as little weapons of cultural antagonism and self-serving feelings of superiority instead of being used for self-questionning. However, both in the muslim and the christian/secular worlds, there are also feminists denouncing local representations, and making the woman's condition progress locally. And yeah, usually, "our" feminists have it easy, compared to "theirs".

(Now, just as a disclaimer - the opposition between "western" and "muslim" is a bit rough on the edge, it gives the idea that islam is purely exterior to the "western world", and reciprocally. In practice it's not exactly like that, but right now I can't see what terminology would have been more convenient for this point.)
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amok: Apologies, but I just found it very funny that someone is saying that someone else is not doing traditional reviews, but opinion pieces based on experiences instead. No harm intended, it just made me laugh. Cheers.
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monkeydelarge: I thought all reviews are based on reviewers experience playing the game?
yes, that's what I mean. All reviews are opinion pieces, and nothing but a personal views.
Post edited November 25, 2013 by amok
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Kennethor: Games should be for everybody, not just for boys who don't care.
If you can't understand the problem, do some research.
Not really. Regardless of considering games as a business or art, the creator may shape his audience just as much as he likes.

If author A wants to make a game that will be liked by boys only, it's his and only his right to do so. At the same time, some other author has a liberty to make his game for everybody, or for women only, or for people in between.

"Games should be for everybody" is equivalent of "There should be world peace" type of argument.
Post edited November 25, 2013 by keeveek
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HiPhish: Can't entertainment be just that, entertainment? If you want to make a political statement, then write a proper book (by proper book I mean do not inject political ideology into a novel, write a proper treatment of the subject matter) or film a documentary. Entertainment should be about entertaining, and sometimes that involves being stupid. Looking at video games, comic books or novels for meaningful life lessons is like looking at porn for relationship advice.
So we should just throw out 1984? District 9? Unforgiven? Lord of War? Casablanca? American History X? Boyz in the Hood? Trading Places? Falling Down?
Attaching meaningfulness to movies IMPROVES them. Makes them better, not worse. ANY movie where the author feels passionate enough about a subject to want to write/film something about it would probably be somewhat meaningful (limited by their skill in general, of course).

Nobody is LOOKING for life lessons from a video game, but video games (and other media) are reflections of the culture at that point (or at least, reflections of how the author views the culture at that point). So when there are 5 million games that feature a buff, caucasian male as a protagonist for every one that features a female character, there's nothing wrong with pointing that out and investigating and asking about it. When out of those few female character games, when there is only 1 that features a (relatively) normal female character for every 500 that features hypersexualised characters, people can't point that out and investigate and ask about it?
Post edited November 25, 2013 by babark
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Kennethor: Games should be for everybody, not just for boys who don't care.
If you can't understand the problem, do some research.
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keeveek: Not really. Regardless of considering games as a business or art, the creator may shape his audience just as much as he likes.

If author A wants to make a game that will be kiled by boys only, it's his and only his right to do so. At the same time, some other author has a liberty to make his game for everybody, or for women only, or for people in between.

"Games should be for everybody" is equivalent of "There should be world peace" type of argument.
Is'nt it better to wish for world peace than to just accept everything that is wrong?

And don't you think that if someone makes a piece of sexist trash, journalists should'nt talk about it?

I know what I think is right, it's unfortuneate that the world is as it is.
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babark: Attaching meaningfulness to movies IMPROVES them. Makes them better, not worse. ANY movie where the author feels passionate enough about a subject to want to write/film something about it would probably be somewhat meaningful (limited by their skill in general, of course).
True. But the author should not be "forced" or "pressured" to make a statement on anything. If he wants just make an entertaining movie about aliens vs earthlings, he should be able to do it.

And this is exactly what happened in this interview. Blizzard wants to make some game to just be an entertainment, but gets bashed by RPS "journalist" for doing so.
This is the reason why no one takes feminists seriously anymore.
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keeveek: True. But the author should not be "forced" or "pressured" to make a statement on anything. If he wants just make an entertaining movie about aliens vs earthlings, he should be able to do it.

And this is exactly what happened in this interview. Blizzard wants to make some game to just be an entertainment, but gets bashed by RPS "journalist" for doing so.
In your example, if EVERY human featured in the entire game was a white male, you don't think it'd be worth pointing that out?
The problem here is that the "normal" has been set at "caucasian male". Caucasian males might not even notice this (because they are caucasian males), but that doesn't mean it isn't worthy of investigation.
Post edited November 25, 2013 by babark
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Kennethor: And don't you think that if someone makes a piece of sexist trash, journalists should'nt talk about it?
They can. At the same time, some other people should be able to say "this opinion is garbage" without being automatically labelled as mysoginist pig.

Many reviewers can't grasp the difference between fiction and reality also. For example, when in Game of Thrones Joffrey killed a prostitute, there were feminists bashing about how GoT is sexist and promotes abuse against women.

I mean, what the actual fuck. The only thing that happened there was to show JOFFREY, FICTIONAL CHARACTER to be a mysoginist and female abuser.

The same thing is for this MOBA interview. The "journalist" bashes some character concept regardless of the fact the entire game world is made to be over the top and stereotypical entertainment. There are not only oversexualized women there but also over-muscled(?) men, so it fits together perfectly.

Nitpicking things like that is not "analyzing", but simply bashing for attention.
Post edited November 25, 2013 by keeveek
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keeveek: "Games should be for everybody" is equivalent of "There should be world peace" type of argument.
ok, now argue that there should not be world peace.
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babark: In your example, if EVERY human featured in the entire game was a white male, you don't think it'd be worth pointing that out?
He can point that out, but what would that make? Can't a fictional world be filled only with white males? Or black women? Or colourful people?

It would be silly to call my world racist when there are no different races in it at all ;P
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WBGhiro: This is the reason why no one takes feminists seriously anymore.
Your arguments have already failed, you have nothing to add in this conversation.
You know to little to have anything important to say, simple as that.
If you want to talk about it, say something to support your arguments.
Why are the things listed a reason not to take feminists seriously?