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Mrstarker: If male superheroes were drawn like female superheroes:
While some buff dude stuff is certainly more about male power than sexiness, Gears of War being a prime example, women certainly do appreciate handsome, physically fit men in power roles. Look at the cover of every romance novel ever written.

If you don't think Iron Man in the movies is designed to appeal to women you're rather naive.
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StingingVelvet: While some buff dude stuff is certainly more about male power than sexiness, Gears of War being a prime example, women certainly do appreciate handsome, physically fit men in power roles. Look at the cover of every romance novel ever written.

If you don't think Iron Man in the movies is designed to appeal to women you're rather naive.
I think Thor in newest Marvel movies is even more aimed at female audience. Not to mention Loki.

But I guess everything is about patriarchy and male power fantasy, right?
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Mrstarker: If male superheroes were drawn like female superheroes:
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StingingVelvet: While some buff dude stuff is certainly more about male power than sexiness, Gears of War being a prime example, women certainly do appreciate handsome, physically fit men in power roles. Look at the cover of every romance novel ever written.

If you don't think Iron Man in the movies is designed to appeal to women you're rather naive.
Women these days are appealed by Thor's brother Loki.

Nostalgia Critic explains:

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/39300-nostalgia-critic-why-is-loki-so-ho
Good god... This « game journalist » just seems like another of these super-offended pseudo-feminists proliferating in the anglo-saxon countries.

HIS vision of how women should be or shouldn't be pictured in video games is THE ONE that all mankind should embrace. Otherwise you're either sexist, mysoginist, brainwashed or clueless. In his deluded world, there is no room for power or sex fantasies since HE views them as disgusting, wrong and devious. All men should refrain these « horrible » pulsions and be like him, the pinnacle of righteousness.

Over the top heroines become hyper-sexualized sex toys. Fantasies become male power fantasies. Rescuing a loved one becomes rescuing a soulless disempowered woman. Beautiful women with round asses are wrong ; handsome tenebrous men with 6 pack abs are fine. *sigh* Talk about distorting things and double standards...

To me, he just looks like a sad product of these castrating third wave feminists.
Post edited November 25, 2013 by Tza
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Crosmando: Actually, that's basically what those people want. They want to censor any games they feel represent female characters in a "sexist" way. Not official censorship, but they do want to use the media to put pressure on designers to self-censor their games in such a way that they conform to their feminist/leftist ideology, which is pretty much the same thing as censorship.

You really think those people want to "discuss" issues? They have already made up their minds and they won't be changed. Their is no ~discussion~, it's just a bunch of ideological extremists trying to bully, threaten, harass, humiliate and pressure designers into changing the design of their games.

They're a bunch of crazies and the only winning move is just to ignore them.
Actually, that's basically what you want. You want to censor RPS to not write articles about games that represent female characters in a "sexist" way. Not official censorship, but you do want to use the gamers to put pressure on RPS to self-censor their articles in such a way that they don't touch feminist/leftist ideology, which is pretty much the same thing as censorship.

You really just don't you want to "discuss" issues. You have already made up your mind and you won't be changed. Their is no ~discussion~, you're just among a bunch of ideological extremists trying to bully, threaten, harass, humiliate and pressure RPS into changing their articles / opinions.

You're one of those crazies and the only winning move is just to NOT ignore it.
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Siannah: Actually, that's basically what you want. You want to censor RPS to not write articles about games that represent female characters in a "sexist" way. Not official censorship, but you do want to use the gamers to put pressure on RPS to self-censor their articles in such a way that they don't touch feminist/leftist ideology, which is pretty much the same thing as censorship.

You really just don't you want to "discuss" issues. You have already made up your mind and you won't be changed. Their is no ~discussion~, you're just among a bunch of ideological extremists trying to bully, threaten, harass, humiliate and pressure RPS into changing their articles / opinions.

You're one of those crazies and the only winning move is just to NOT ignore it.
Nice copypasta, but my position is one of political neutrality, not a specific partisan viewpoint.

But then again you sound like one of those people who can't separate politics and games in your brain. Try it, it isn't difficult.

If someone looks at a female character in a game and think it's sexist, that's their subjective opinion, nothing else. The fact is these are privately-held companies and there's absolutely nothing that can actually force them to do anything they don't want to do, they are paying for these games for made so they can do whatever they want.

My opinion is that all companies should just tell these self-righteous activists to fuck off if they are told their designs are "sexist". If "feminists" or whoever want a game that meets their ideological standards, they should make their own game with their own money, and stop whining about what other people do with their money.

They have no right to demand anything. You know unless Blizzard was owned by the US government to make games for the masses with tax-payers money, then you might have an argument.
Post edited November 25, 2013 by Crosmando
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Siannah: Actually, that's basically what you want. You want to censor RPS to not write articles about games that represent female characters in a "sexist" way. Not official censorship, but you do want to use the gamers to put pressure on RPS to self-censor their articles in such a way that they don't touch feminist/leftist ideology, which is pretty much the same thing as censorship.

You really just don't you want to "discuss" issues. You have already made up your mind and you won't be changed. Their is no ~discussion~, you're just among a bunch of ideological extremists trying to bully, threaten, harass, humiliate and pressure RPS into changing their articles / opinions.

You're one of those crazies and the only winning move is just to NOT ignore it.
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Crosmando: Nice copypasta, but my position is one of political neutrality, not a specific partisan viewpoint.

But then again you sound like one of those people who can't separate politics and games in your brain. Try it, it isn't difficult.
Normally I have no interest in this, but I like to say:

Video Gamers don't want to talk about these issues and dielemma about gender/sexism (and probably other issues issues in the future) because we honestly don't want to talk about this, we just play games to play games.

For Books/Comic Books, Film, even Music you can talk about those issues of Gender,Race, Sexual Orientation all you want, but for Video Games leave us out of it.
Post edited November 25, 2013 by Elmofongo
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Elmofongo: For Books/Comic Books, Film, even Music you can talk about those issues of Gender,Race, Sexual Orientation all you want, but for Video Games leave us out of it.
At the same time, while there are books and movies that talk about such issues as well as ones that don't, so can video game developers choose whether or not to spotlight the same issues. It is a media like any other and its creators should be able to take the same criticisms (as well as have the option to answer "that's not our concern, we build worlds that we feel are interesting and/or fun and characters that suit said worlds").
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Crosmando: If someone looks at a female character in a game and think it's sexist, that's their subjective opinion, nothing else. The fact is these are privately-held companies and there's absolutely nothing that can actually force them to do anything they don't want to do, they are paying for these games for made so they can do whatever they want.

My opinion is that all companies should just tell these self-righteous activists to fuck off if they are told their designs are "sexist". If "feminists" or whoever want a game that meets their ideological standards, they should make their own game with their own money, and stop whining about what other people do with their money.
In a way the lunatic champions of polical correctness called "game journalists" and the spineless treacherous shitweasels at head of most AAA studios really deserve eachother.

This industry is just so fucked up.
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Crosmando: Nice copypasta, but my position is one of political neutrality, not a specific partisan viewpoint.

But then again you sound like one of those people who can't separate politics and games in your brain. Try it, it isn't difficult.
No, you're certainly not in a position of political neutrality with dismissing them as just feminist/leftist ideology. And I can separate politics and games rather nicely, believe it or not. It's just that I don't claim "no issue because it's games".

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Crosmando: If someone looks at a female character in a game and think it's sexist, that's their subjective opinion, nothing else. The fact is these are privately-held companies and there's absolutely nothing that can actually force them to do anything they don't want to do, they are paying for these games for made so they can do whatever they want.
So, where's the problem then with RPS having an opinion and speaking it out?

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Crosmando: They're a bunch of crazies and the only winning move is just to ignore them.
I totally forgot to add, how horribly you fail at that. :)
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Elmofongo: For Books/Comic Books, Film, even Music you can talk about those issues of Gender,Race, Sexual Orientation all you want, but for Video Games leave us out of it.
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Maighstir: At the same time, while there are books and movies that talk about such issues as well as ones that don't, so can video game developers choose whether or not to spotlight the same issues. It is a media like any other and its creators should be able to take the same criticisms (as well as have the option to answer "that's not our concern, we build worlds that we feel are interesting and/or fun and characters that suit said worlds").
I understand that, but I am talking about this from the perspective of most gamers I've seen on the web, not game developers. And Most gamers (not all) really does not want to talk about it or does not care.
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Siannah: No, you're certainly not in a position of political neutrality with dismissing them as just feminist/leftist ideology.
So because I can spot a cat when I see a cat, I'm not political neutral. RPS's political rants ARE pretty extreme feminism, that's just a fact. I'd be making the same case if RPS were super-conservative and arguing that Blizzard's designs are "immoral" because all the girls wear less clothing or whatever.

EDIT: Though it is curious how the criticisms of "sexualized" character design in games is almost the same as conservative criticism of the same thing. I wonder if RPS and their fellow travelers would probably consider Saudi Arabia a paradise, no women with sexualized attire over there.

And I can separate politics and games rather nicely, believe it or not. It's just that I don't claim "no issue because it's games
Most gamers just do not like unsubtle political content in their games.

So, where's the problem then with RPS having an opinion and speaking it out?
Mostly because they use their gaming site as a method for political pontification. I think it's a sad downfall because it wasn't too long ago that I considered them one of the only gaming sites on the web that only reported on PC games and wasn't horribly corrupted. But really it doesn't matter, I won't be giving that site any clicks anymore.

I totally forgot to add, how horribly you fail at that. :)
I posted this thread mostly to stir up some drama. These forums get a little dull.
Post edited November 25, 2013 by Crosmando
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doady: To silence discussion and criticism: do you know that is? It's called censorship.
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Crosmando: You really think those people want to "discuss" issues? They have already made up their minds and they won't be changed. Their is no ~discussion~, it's just a bunch of ideological extremists trying to bully, threaten, harass, humiliate and pressure...
The irony of this comment made me smile.

Personally, I thank you for making this thread. As I have said before, I love reading posts like yours.
I think some people are forgetting that RPS is a privately owned and operated "blog" and not a mass media outlet that must pander to their readers in order to maintain an acceptable share price. RPS has an editorial line, and they have stated on many occasions that while they are not experts in the fields of sexual, racial, and other forms of discrimination, they view it as inherently wrong and will never waver on this point nor ignore it.

Yes, the Goodbye Deponia article was overtaken by John Walker's personal views on the content rather than focusing on gameplay, however it should be noted that RPS do not do traditional "reviews", but rather pure opinion pieces based on their experience playing the game - something which many find more appealing than an arbitrary number out of 10.

And to those saying, "leave politics out of games, leave that stuff to films and books etc." I would point out that, while we are cosily tucked away in our corner of denial and DRM free PC gaming convincing ourselves that we are involved in a minority hobby, since the days of the first Playstation gaming has been garnering more and more mainstream acceptability, to the point where the budgets and audience reached for AAA titles is comparable to Hollywood. In other words, gaming isn't invisible any more, and these issues affect everyone, so yes, this discussion is going to happen whether you as individuals ignore it or not.
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Elmofongo: For Books/Comic Books, Film, even Music you can talk about those issues of Gender,Race, Sexual Orientation all you want, but for Video Games leave us out of it.
No one reads comic books anymore, and all the political BS is part of the reason why. Can't entertainment be just that, entertainment? If you want to make a political statement, then write a proper book (by proper book I mean do not inject political ideology into a novel, write a proper treatment of the subject matter) or film a documentary. Entertainment should be about entertaining, and sometimes that involves being stupid. Looking at video games, comic books or novels for meaningful life lessons is like looking at porn for relationship advice.